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Vintage Omega Speedmaster 145022 Query - New to forum

M
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Hi, looking for some advice.
I've got a Speedmaster with movement serial number 31 million odds, depending on what site you visit this gives several possible years of manufacture. I've seen it ranging from1969 to 1973. Movement is calibre 861 as it should be.

The inner caseback is marked 145022 - 74.

I paid for an extract from the archives from Omega and they got back to me stating "The available historical documentation associated to the movement you provided us leads to a watch model that does not match the one in the pictures you submitted."

Would you reckon then the movement at some point has been put in a newer case with the inner caseback being marked 145022 - 74. But surely they could have gave me an extract for the watch even though the movement has maybe been changed at a service?. I mean from what I can tell everything is perfectly genuine and original.

I'm now unsure about the date of the watch and what exactly has happened.

It may be a stretch but any help / advice appreciated. Pictures attached

Thank you, M
 
IMG_20211005_101956.jpg Screenshot_20211005_102538.jpg Screenshot_20211005_102743.jpg
Servius
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Curious to think that the movement has been replaced by a movement in the correct range for that reference… Even if it is known that this reference got the widest range of all pre -78 Speedmasters.
 
watchyouwant
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No. That means, that your movement does not belong in a Speedmaster. Could be a Seamaster chrono. That is a polite way, to tell you, your watch is not original.
 
M
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watchyouwant watchyouwant
No. That means, that your movement does not belong in a Speedmaster. Could be a Seamaster chrono. That is a polite way, to tell you, your watch is not original.

From what I've seen from research a calibre 861 with such serial number is the right movement for this type of watch. I took it to mean it didn't belong in this 145022 - 74 model and instead another Speedmaster rather than another watch altogether?.
 
jaegodylan
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You should put the full number in at Ilovemyspeedmaster.com

could be a later caseback?

I submitted a watch for an extract and got the same response as the caseback on the watch was incorrect. I managed to phone them and the woman on the phone gently prodded me to the correct reference. with the correct reference mentioned they would issue an extract.

Another option is to submit only the serial number and no reference and they will typically advise the correct reference and issue an extract should it indeed be a speedy movement.
 
M
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jaegodylan jaegodylan
You should put the full number in at Ilovemyspeedmaster.com

could be a later caseback?

I submitted a watch for an extract and got the same response as the caseback on the watch was incorrect. I managed to phone them and the woman on the phone gently prodded me to the correct reference. with the correct reference mentioned they would issue an extract.

Another option is to submit only the serial number and no reference and they will typically advise the correct reference and issue an extract should it indeed be a speedy movement.

Thanks for the advice. On entering the serial number on the site it gave an production estimate of May 1971. Everything I've read does point to a Speedy movement so I'm quite reluctant to think it doesn't belong in a speedy.
 
M
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jaegodylan jaegodylan
You should put the full number in at Ilovemyspeedmaster.com

could be a later caseback?

I submitted a watch for an extract and got the same response as the caseback on the watch was incorrect. I managed to phone them and the woman on the phone gently prodded me to the correct reference. with the correct reference mentioned they would issue an extract.

Another option is to submit only the serial number and no reference and they will typically advise the correct reference and issue an extract should it indeed be a speedy movement.

Also when searching the serial number on that link it states Moonwatch calibres 321, 861 and 1861 only under production date query. Again suggesting it does belong to a Speedmaster.
 
Dan S
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M mcahill10
From what I've seen from research a calibre 861 with such serial number is the right movement for this type of watch. I took it to mean it didn't belong in this 145022 - 74 model and instead another Speedmaster rather than another watch altogether?.

Omega knows what watch that movement was originally installed into. As @watchyouwant mentioned, the message you got from them suggests that it was not a Speedmaster movement, but there's no way to know for sure. Cal 861 movements were used in various models, including Seamaster chronographs, and when repairs are made at a later date, people will often use whatever movement/parts they can find.

M mcahill10
Also when searching the serial number on that link it states Moonwatch calibres 321, 861 and 1861 only under production date query. Again suggesting it does belong to a Speedmaster.

This site (which was developed by an OF member) uses known serial numbers to put an approximate date on the movement. It does not include information about what model a particular movement was used in.

M mcahill10
I'm quite reluctant to think it doesn't belong in a speedy.

I can tell. 😉
Edited:
 
M
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Dan S Dan S
Omega knows what watch that movement was originally installed into. As @watchyouwant mentioned, the message you got from them suggests that it was not a Speedmaster movement, but there's no way to know for sure. Cal 861 movements were used in various models, including Seamaster chronographs, and when repairs are made at a later date, people will often use whatever movement/parts they can find.



This site (which was developed by an OF member) uses known serial numbers to put an approximate date on the movement. It does not include information about what model a particular movement was used in.



I can tell. 😉

Ha, it's just a pain Omega couldn't have given a bit more info. As Jaegodylan stated above he was told a very similar thing relating to his watch when he tried to get an extract of the archives and it turned out to be the wrong caseback causing the issue. They also stated to him the issue was regarding the model, I have hope yet.
 
ckhaing
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Dan S Dan S
... Cal 861 movements were used in various models ....

i have this one, 861 in it, not a speedmaster

deville prestige 861 ref 4540 51 00.jpg
 
Dan S
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M mcahill10
Ha, it's just a pain Omega couldn't have given a bit more info. As Jaegodylan stated above he was told a very similar thing relating to his watch when he tried to get an extract of the archives and it turned out to be the wrong caseback causing the issue. They also stated to him the issue was regarding the model, I have hope yet.

Unfortunately Omega has gotten more restrictive about the information they routinely provide in recent years. That said, the stories we hear are sometimes quite mysterious, with some people claiming that they can get additional information from personal contacts, second extracts issued with different information, etc., so give it a try.

Some really influential people (e.g. at high-end auction houses) are apparently able to get anything they want on an Omega extract. 😁
 
M
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ckhaing ckhaing
i have this one, 861 in it, not a speedmaster

deville prestige 861 ref 4540 51 00.jpg

Yeah I appreciate that 861s were used in different models, thanks
 
Archer
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jaegodylan jaegodylan
Another option is to submit only the serial number and no reference and they will typically advise the correct reference and issue an extract should it indeed be a speedy movement.

Not sure how you are submitting for extracts, but when using the on-line form, you have to put the case reference in.
 
M
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Archer Archer
Not sure how you are submitting for extracts, but when using the on-line form, you have to put the case reference in.

That was certainly the case when I did it, the pain with that is the case back may have been changed and its the only place my case has a reference.
 
watchyouwant
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Archer Archer
Not sure how you are submitting for extracts, but when using the on-line form, you have to put the case reference in.
No, you can leave that blanc. Pics. from the front and outside the back . And the movement number only. Then you will know, if it is a Speedmaster or not.They give you the correspondent case reference. Done that many times
 
M
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Hindsight is a great thing. I did this a while ago and when I replied asking for further info I got no response at all. I don't think I could fork out another £120 with the possibility it happens again ha. I wish they had just said what model it belonged to, it surely wouldn't have been too hard to let me know.

Do you know if the only case reference is the 145022 - 74 one on the inner case back, or would there normally be another elsewhere. It seems weird do only be on the case back when they're often changed over. Other watches I own it's often between the lugs etc
 
jaegodylan
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M mcahill10
Hindsight is a great thing. I did this a while ago and when I replied asking for further info I got no response at all. I don't think I could fork out another £120 with the possibility it happens again ha. I wish they had just said what model it belonged to, it surely wouldn't have been too hard to let me know.

Do you know if the only case reference is the 145022 - 74 one on the inner case back, or would there normally be another elsewhere. It seems weird do only be on the case back when they're often changed over. Other watches I own it's often between the lugs etc

Thats is the only one.. the odd thing here is I don't think they would deny it over the -74 as the extract would typically only ever say 145022.

You can write to Omega support and they will eventually get back to you.
 
MikiJ
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I believe the early 74s were the last with stepped dials. If I were looking for a 74 it would be the early version stepped dial for sure.
 
speedy4ever
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There are several Speedmasters 145.022-74 (flat dial, middle-size S) in 31.3 millions so please don't consider that it's a replaced movement or something similar. Unfortunately the beginning of the 1970s is a weird period with 145.022-69, -71 and -74 with serial numbers in the same range/batch.
 
MikiJ
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speedy4ever speedy4ever
There are several Speedmasters 145.022-74 (flat dial, middle-size S) in 31.3 millions so please don't consider that it's a replaced movement or something similar. Unfortunately the beginning of the 1970s is a weird period with 145.022-69, -71 and -74 with serial numbers in the same range/batch.
I agree but I don't believe that I was saying anything more than what I'd be looking for and this one wouldn't be it.
 
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