Views on Pie Pan Seamaster

paulwatch001 · Mar 3, 2018

Hi all.
This is my first post on any forum so please be gentle.
I would firstly like to say hello and a big thank you to the forum for helping me learn and gain knowledge from the wealth of experience provided by the members here.
It has helped me hugely on acquiring several pieces for my humble collection.
I would really appreciate views on the watch in the photos below.
Model 14770-1 SC, Cal 562 dating to 1960.
Thanks in advance.

paulwatch001 · Mar 3, 2018

After reading several other posts I believe it would be beneficial for me to give some more details and appraise the watch myself. Rather than simply asking seasoned members for advice. I just hope that I do not get eaten alive!

I have bought the watch but have 14 days return. It has been professionally appraised and has a certificate of authenticity from the buyer which in fairness is worthless except for the sellers knowledge if trusted.
The benefit is that the back of the dial etc. has been inspected.
My appraisal:
Dial has nice even patina under a quality loupe. Typical light gold speckling with the odd small mark here and there.
A little even oxidisation slightly more evident at 6 O’clock near the'Swiss made’. All in line with other black dials that I have studied.
Alarm bells would ring for me if perfect.
Hands also have even oxidisation as well as the applied indices.
Fonts look good in both Seamaster and Automatic. Cross hairs are nice and thin and go to the edge of the dial. The Printing is also nice and thin with minute track very even.
Printing is gold colour ‘gilt’? not re-dila white. Oxidisation/blemishes evident and uniform through the print so dial and print are as one.
I would expect to possibly see dauphine hands but have seen Seamasters with similar two tone dials (not pie pan) with these hands. Length also looks good.
Case is sharp and honest. A few marks but over all in nice condition. Original Omega crystal and crown.
I believe the watch to be genuine. Looks to have aged nicely and very evenly. I can not find the same watch searching the internet but a couple fairly close with two tone dome dials.
Movement number for 1960 is correct.

Gstp · Mar 3, 2018

Would have expected dauphine hands, but they are available if you want to change

ulackfocus · Mar 3, 2018

WTF is that????? Somebody took an old pie pan dial, refinished it as a Seamaster, and stuffed it into a front loading 166.xxx case.

paulwatch001
I have bought the watch but have 14 days return. It has been professionally appraised and has a certificate of authenticity from the buyer which in fairness is worthless except for the sellers knowledge if trusted.

I'd return it then. The paperwork is bullshit unless you yourself got an extract from Omega.

In over a decade of collecting & moderating on watch forums, I have never ever seen that dial on a Seamaster - and I've seen and owned REAL Seamaster pie pans. It's probably a repainted dial from a 561 Constellation that was degraded. Black is the popular color for redials. It certainly is a nice job though.

If that's real, and the odds of it being genuine are longer than me regrowing hair, I'd say you have the rarest Omega Seamaster EVER. 😜

Gstp
Would have expected dauphine hands, but they are available if you want to change

A Constellation would have dauphine hands. A real Seamaster Pie Pan would also.

ulackfocus · Mar 3, 2018

@MSNWatch
@mondodec
@cicindela
@gatorcpa
@kyle L
@hoipolloi

Gstp · Mar 3, 2018

U ulackfocus
If that's real, and the odds of it being genuine are longer than me regrowing hair, I'd say you have the rarest Omega Seamaster EVER. 😜

A Constellation would have dauphine hands. A real Seamaster Pie Pan would also.

I commented on mobile phone, now I've changed to PC and see your point ...

DIV · Mar 3, 2018

By the way, welcome to the forum....

ConElPueblo · Mar 3, 2018

Honestly, while I have never seen anything like it, I have to say that if it is a redial it is a good job.

The only thing that really stands out at a cursory glance is the fully drawn line from nine to six. On all the pie pans I have seen the crosshairs is only on the flat middle surface and not carried on through markers or as here, past the date window...

cicindela · Mar 3, 2018

@mac_omega
@Bill Sohne

cicindela · Mar 3, 2018

At this point I want to see high resolution close ups with the dial out the case.
But I don't like the placement of the markers with the hardware.
The hands others have mentioned.
The swiss made looks a little sketchy

A great many of these 1960 Seamasters have replaced dials and I would not be surprised if a Constellation dial fit on this.

ulackfocus · Mar 3, 2018

BTW, that's a great avatar @paulwatch001.

I have 2 superpowers:

1) Making time go backwards (the arrival time on the GPS, that is).
2) Creating words, particularly ones that should exist but don't.

DIV
By the way, welcome to the forum....

Oh yeah, there's that too. Welcome, and thanks for a great subject. It's sure to catch a lot of attention.

paulwatch001 · Mar 3, 2018

Thanks for your welcome and input. Appreciated.
I have dug out my digital camera and tried to get some close ups, attached.

gatorcpa · Mar 3, 2018

I have no clue what this is or how it got this way.

However, I can say that I have never seen a pre-1970’s (and this is certainly a pre-1970 watch), with a non-chronometer pie-pan dial, black or otherwise.

When it comes to vintage Omega, I like to say, “never say never”, so I won’t. But I will say extremely unlikely.

If Omega Bienne can verify the origin of the dial, then this may be a discovery piece. Until then, I’m quite skeptical.
gatorcpa

TNTwatch · Mar 3, 2018

paulwatch001
Thanks for your welcome and input. Appreciated.
I have dug out my digital camera and tried to get some close ups, attached.

All look good so far. Can you take and post pictures of the back of the dial? Also dial's diameter as well?

I don't think any Constellation dial would fit nicely into this watch model.

paulwatch001 · Mar 3, 2018

Hi TNTwatch. Thanks for your post.
I don't mind opening a screw on case back but this front loader is beyond my limited skills.
I spoke with the seller before purchase and the back of the dial had been studied to make sure a rivet hole for a constellation star had not been filled. I have looked at this watch for hours with various loupes and lighting and looks spot on to my keen, learning but untrained eye.
The dial is a perfect fit and snug with the case and crystal tension ring.
Using dial callipers externally I would say dial is 31.5mm. I know this is not accurate and doesn't really answer your questions but the best I can do right now.
Other experienced eyes have cast views which I take on board. I am just really intrigued. At least I have the option to return the watch.

TNTwatch · Mar 3, 2018

paulwatch001
Hi TNTwatch. Thanks for your post.
I don't mind opening a screw on case back but this front loader is beyond my limited skills.
I spoke with the seller before purchase and the back of the dial had been studied to make sure a rivet hole for a constellation star had not been filled. I have looked at this watch for hours with various loupes and lighting and looks spot on to my keen, learning but untrained eye.
The dial is a perfect fit and snug with the case and crystal tension ring.
Using dial callipers externally I would say dial is 31.5mm. I know this is not accurate and doesn't really answer your questions but the best I can do right now.
Other experienced eyes have cast views which I take on board. I am just really intrigued. At least I have the option to return the watch.

You'll probably need to have the watch serviced anyways (or at least inspected for condition and originality), so you can have internal pictures taken then. Beside the hole for the star, it could show signs of redial or not as well.

31.5mm would be the OD of the crystal. The dial would be about 1mm smaller, which would be larger than the dial of any round Constellations, including the jumbos.

paulwatch001 · Mar 3, 2018

That is exactly where the callipers sat so dial at 1mm smaller would make sense.
My watch maker is local, I will call in and get him to open the watch up and get some photos.
Watch sold as serviced with 12 month movement warranty and running superbly over 48hrs.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

ulackfocus · Mar 3, 2018

TNTwatch
I don't think any Constellation dial would fit nicely into this watch model.

You would be very surprised at how many parts are interchangeable in the vintage watch world - and not only from the same brand. Matt on WUS made a Rolmega (or was it an Omegalex?) that was a great example of how easy it was to put together watches from odd parts.

TNTwatch · Mar 3, 2018

U ulackfocus
You would be very surprised at how many parts are interchangeable in the vintage watch world - and not only from the same brand. Matt on WUS made a Rolmega (or was it an Omegalex?) that was a great example of how easy it was to put together watches from odd parts.

I wouldn't be surprised at the interchangeability, but I'm quite sure no dial of any known Constellations would fit into a normal Seamaster DeVille monocoque case. This is about genuine and non-modified dials. You can look at Desmond's list of all Constellations and pick any that you can imagine, and I can tell you it wouldn't fit.

I wouldn't be surprised about fake or enthusiast mod dials either, but it's not likely in the OP watch.

paulwatch001 · Mar 4, 2018

Having slept on it I am still in a quandary. I plan to contact the seller and ask for some more time to investigate the watch. I can then either let the seller open it up and provide detailed photographs or take it to my watch maker. If the seller is confident this shouldn't be an issue.
If all goes to plan I will post the images.
I am sure many think the answer is to simply return the watch now and move on? Part of me also thinks that is the way forward.
Either way I like the way the watch has raised interest even among experienced members. Still with an element of doubt. Isn't that part of what collecting and learning is all about?
Any further thoughts appreciated.

Views on Pie Pan Seamaster

paulwatch001

paulwatch001

Gstp

ulackfocus

ulackfocus

Gstp

DIV

ConElPueblo

cicindela

cicindela

ulackfocus

paulwatch001

gatorcpa

TNTwatch

paulwatch001

TNTwatch

paulwatch001

ulackfocus

TNTwatch

paulwatch001

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