UPDATED Zenith "Yugoslav" chronograph - 143-6 EP caliber

Syrte · Nov 24, 2023

Well, somebody bought a batch of 2000 swiss chronographs. So if not the government, who was it? Tito himself for his friends with money stolen from the empty state coffers?

PS edit/ add: absent any documentary evidence, indeed the story above is just hearsay. But if the government can’t afford those watches for resale to individuals, then the most logical conclusion is that they were distributed to the military or to some state administrations in charge of critical tasks, eg hydrographic survey, Personally, I don’t really care whether it’s one or the other, I’m just as happy if those watches retain a.bit of their mystery.

Zapatta · Nov 25, 2023

Tito was famous for wearing and gifting exclusive watches like PP, IWC, Omega, Zenith etc. I highly doubt Jugoslavija couldn't afford 2000 Zenith's.

Syrte · Nov 25, 2023

@Zapatta are all of the watches above supposed to have been purchased by Tito, with the script at the back presumably his signature?

PS since @Albertovr from from Orologi e Passioni saw the discussion here, below the reply he posted in Italian on that forum.

Albertovr
La mia “storia” può essere considerata credibile o meno.

Mi pare che quell’utente sostenga che la Jugoslavia era completamente senza soldi e quindi non in grado di comprare i 2000 orologi. Se così fosse quei 2000 orologi non sono mai finiti in Jugoslavia e si può tranquillamente chiudere la discussione. Resterà il mistero di chi ha ordinato il lotto, del perchè tali orologi non sono mai stati a catalogo zenith, del perchè tutti provengano da paesi ex Jugoslavia.

La mia “storia” nulla aggiunge a quanto già noto, tranne il fatto che gli orologi non venivano regalati/assegnati ma dovevano essere pagati dagli ufficiali che li ricevevano.

Nel frattempo mi pare che la tesi di una Jugoslavia non in grado di comprare orologi svizzeri abbia ricevuto adeguata risposta su quel forum

Google translate:

« My “story” can be considered credible or not.

It seems to me that that user claims that Yugoslavia was completely out of money and therefore not able to buy the 2000 watches. If this were the case, those 2000 watches never ended up in Yugoslavia and the discussion can easily be closed. The mystery of who ordered the lot will remain, of why these watches were never in the Zenith catalogue, of why they all come from former Yugoslavian countries.

My "story" adds nothing to what is already known, except for the fact that the watches were not given/assigned but had to be paid for by the officers who received them.

In the meantime it seems to me that the thesis of Yugoslavia not being able to buy Swiss watches has received an adequate response on that forum »

Zapatta · Nov 25, 2023

It very unlikely Tito bought them on his own without government because there were tens of thousands of watches with his signature. IWC watches were most popular and given to higher ranking officers and public servants while Pateks were for foreign diplomats and state officials.

Syrte · Nov 25, 2023

Zapatta
tens of thousands of watches with his signature.

😲 Er…. Dear @Zapatta, we may all be very ignorant here, but over here this also seems to beg for some sort of proof 😗
Is there a documented source for that ?

Zapatta · Nov 25, 2023

Syrte
😲Er…. Dear @Zapatta, we may all be very ignorant here, but over here this also seems to beg for some sort of proof😗
Is there a documented source for that ?

I'm stating that based on my observations because I know at lot of people who inherited different watches with Tito's signature, ranging from low/middle level public servants to engineers like my neighbor and his team who were gifted VC's because they helped to set up factory that would later become one of the biggest meat producers in Jugoslavija, and also military officers and high ranking people close to Tito and their families. There is folklore that every third house in Jugoslavija has at least one IWC somewhere in the drawer. I mean government was giving apartments and houses to regular people so it's not surprising when it comes to watches. 😀

bardamu · Nov 25, 2023

watchyouwant
The communist party had no assets to use hard currency to buy fancy Swiss Chronographs to on-sell them via salary sacrifice to Officers

What are your historical sources?

Syrte · Nov 25, 2023

Zapatta
I'm stating that based on my observations because I know at lot of people who inherited different watches with Tito's signature, ranging from low/middle level public servants to engineers like my neighbor and his team who were gifted VC's because they helped to set up factory that would later become one of the biggest meat producers in Jugoslavija, and also military officers and high ranking people close to Tito and their families. There is folklore that every third house in Jugoslavija has at least one IWC somewhere in the drawer. I mean government was giving apartments and houses to regular people so it's not surprising when it comes to watches. 😀

Seems like a well orchestrated PR campaign to show his people his brand of communism works best 😜

Maybe that’s why the country went broke as @watchyouwant was saying, it is because they were buying those watches!

bubba48 · Nov 25, 2023

Zapatta
I'm stating that based on my observations because I know at lot of people who inherited different watches with Tito's signature, ranging from low/middle level public servants to engineers like my neighbor and his team who were gifted VC's because they helped to set up factory that would later become one of the biggest meat producers in Jugoslavija, and also military officers and high ranking people close to Tito and their families. There is folklore that every third house in Jugoslavija has at least one IWC somewhere in the drawer. I mean government was giving apartments and houses to regular people so it's not surprising when it comes to watches. 😀

Perhaps they were the houses stolen from the Italians killed or expelled from Istria.
Anyway, these too are a sort of "tales" without real documentation. If there are tens of thousands of watches in the drawers, how come we don't see any for sale?

marco · Nov 25, 2023

@Syrte, fortune favours the brave.
Well done sir.
Not many of us would go alone to an previously undisclosed location to meet two young Eastern European football fans with their perception you are carrying large sum of Euros !
Please don't make a habit of this !
For me you are now "Cool hand Syrte"

watchyouwant · Nov 25, 2023

bardamu
What are your historical sources?

It's all on the Net. We talk about the mid 1950's. Much later the West propped up Tito in an attempt to drive a wedge into the eastern block.

Zapatta · Nov 26, 2023

Syrte
Is there a documented source for that ?

Belgrade, Serbia

bubba48
Perhaps they were the houses stolen from the Italians killed or expelled from Istria.
Anyway, these too are a sort of "tales" without real documentation. If there are tens of thousands of watches in the drawers, how come we don't see any for sale?

Yes Italians, but mostly Croatians, Jews or anybody who wasn't communist including my family. Here in Croatia they pop up quite often in pawn shops ranging from time only Zeniths, Darwil's and Marvins to golden IWC's which can be bought around 1.5k €. I've yet to see PP for sale locally.

Zapatta · Nov 26, 2023

Translate from watchmaker on our local forum;

"The Marshal of the SFRY was one of the major customers of the Patek Philippe factory. Due to a combination of strange circumstances, I bought and resold such 2 watches.
When they were at my place, I became interested in the history of those watches and found out that JBT gave them away with a hat and a fistful. When he came from the path of peace in the Mediterranean, he presented 32 Patek Philippa model Calatrava (from that series I got hold of 2 pieces), they were given to higher ranking naval officers from the ship Galeb, commander of army area and higher official.
The staff of the Brioni National Park also received watches with Tito's engraving. Wherever the old man had his resorts and hunting grounds, whoever worked for him after 10 years received a gold watch. Thus, high-ranking political personnel received Pateks, lower-ranking IWCs, and ordinary workers gold Marvins.
Every graduating Air Force pilot received a Tag Hauer.
I know all this because, I say by a combination of strange circumstances, I was in possession of 2 watches and met a lady from Pula who was the head of protocol in Briuni, who told me all this. I even saw a list of people who received jubilee gold watches. The mass of those people later sold it out of poverty, unfortunately melted it into scrap metal. You probably have such stories as well. Especially those Tito's watches were in Belgrade and Montenegro. In Croatia, the largest concentration of Tito's watches was in Pula and Split."

osterman · Dec 26, 2023

watchyouwant
Highly unlikely story from one Son of an Army Officer in Jugoslavia .... Heresay . In 1954 Yugoslavia had no Money. The communist party had no assets to use hard currency to buy fancy Swiss Chronographs to on-sell them via salary sacrifice to Officers . The state could not feed their own people in the 1950's. Unlike Poland, who had Oil, they sold for $$$$$ and could buy with these $$$$$ stuff in the West. The polish clearance divers got issued Blancpains, big size 2 crown Enicars ...

Are you seriously saying that an Eastern European government in 1954 didn't have the money to simply buy 2.000 watches? Are you serious?

UPDATED Zenith "Yugoslav" chronograph - 143-6 EP caliber

Syrte

Zapatta

Syrte

Zapatta

Syrte

Zapatta

bardamu

Syrte

bubba48

marco

watchyouwant

Zapatta

Zapatta

osterman

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