UPDATED with conclusion: Request for determining value of 145.022-68

I would be grateful to anyone who would like to offer an opinion on the value of the following 145.022-68 transitional Speedmaster. In particular, I am asking for help determining the value (USD).

This is a bit tricky because a friend offered this to me and said to tell him how much I think it's worth. There seem to be two price spectrums, one for the discriminating collector, and the other for the Phillips inspired, money to burn enthusiast. A collector will pay more for condition, and less for an average watch, if buying at all. At auction, money launderers will throw down cash for a good story. The question then is should I buy it as a collector and should he sell it if he can get more from a knucklehead.

The backstory to consider is that the watch came from the estate of the original owner, with box and papers, including sales receipt. In addition, it was purchased at a US military exchange and MAY have been worn by a Navy sailor during service in the Vietnam war. There is no documentation yet but it might be available. This is not included in the price but it’s a factor in my thinking.

Using Sir William’s price categories, these are my thoughts for your consideration.

CASE: Good (-). It has scratches from wear but no nicks or gouges. The edges are generally sharp, and where worn, it is worn from wear as opposed to polishing. A sympathetic light polish by an experienced watchmaker would make the top lug surfaces more attractive and raise this to a Good +, but a polish may stand out against the rest of the watch and detract from the original owner factor. As a collector, leave it alone.

BEZEL: Very Good. No marks, some deterioration around inside near the crystal. Correct DON.

BRACLET: Incorrect, no value. It is possible that I may be able to get a correct 1117/575, but it’s not part of the value now.

DIAL: GOODish. Hard to see under the scratched crystal. It appears undamaged, with no dirt, scratches, and the printing looks good. Also appears correct and original. Not a particularly attractive black, but seems typical of this reference. A bit of a crap shoot at this moment.

LUME: Good (-) . In a reference other than the 145.022-68, this lume would be fair. It appears original, mostly intact on the lower stepped part of the dial, but the markers on the upper part of the dial are largely worn away. This also seems typical of this reference. This impacts the DIAL above, as there is lume dust spread around the dial, which is a negative. It might impact the movement, but the movement will receive a service as part of the sale.

HANDs: Fair. Appear original. Paint is not great but appears intact. Without the history, I would suspect a repaint based only on appearance in the photos. In person, I don’t think they were repainted. But there’s deterioration and the minute hand is kind of nasty.

This is the hard part.

COLLECTOR: 6000 to 8000 for the Head. 1000 to 2000 for box and papers. 7000 to 10000?

ENTHUSIAST: 7500 TO 8500 for the Head. 1500 to 2500 for box and papers. 9000 to 10500?

Hot market, maybe add 2K? Hard to find factor?

QUESTION: Does this seem accurate to you? Too low, too high?


Pictures:


Thanks.

EDIT: This is not a veiled for sale thread.

Thanks, this is helpful and not unexpected. Another friend here said something similar. He summed it up, condition over set.

I really, really want to like this and recognize the fever. It's hard to be rational. Am I right, am I wrong?

Thanks for taking the time to provide a candid and thoughtful response.

I think you’re overthinking it. Id assess it as good overall (or possibly slightly less than good), plus 500-1000 for box and papers.

Also it seems like you’re the one doing the work and if so you should be rewarded with a fair, private sale price. If the seller wants top dollar they should be doing the research and setting the price.

The backstory adds zero monetary value to me, it’s simply interesting. I’m also not sure why your randomly adding 2k??

I agree with what's been said, I wouldn't try to force yourself to fall in love with it just b/c it has papers etc. I do however think it will look nice once cleaned up, a new crystal will make this watch come to life. The bezel is in excellent condition and adds quite a bit of value. The dial is not terrible, but there is missing lume which detracts from overall condition and valuation. The case can be refinished at reasonable cost as well, so there is a lot to like. This could be a nice daily watch, it all comes down to price....$5K seems to be reasonable.

Something is funny about the sweep hand, in particular the shape of the lume plot. Maybe it was sloppily repainted and some of the paint spilled over onto the lume? Anyway, I agree that the missing lume on the dial is a fairly major issue, I don't like it TBH.

That's the potential irrational exuberance effect of an auction. Doesn't make it worth 2k more, just that it might bring more. Which impacts me if I wanted to buy it on the open market, it might cost me more to find another one.

Probably over thinking it 👍

The paint does look off, right? Nothing else in the watch looks touched so it's a little strange to think just the hands were touched up. But the paint seems a little lumpy.

Is it possible the tritium ate into the paint, or lifted it some? Could the hands have had less than perfect paint when it left the factory?

The sweep lume is darker, which I have seen on other -68s. Guessing, it seems it could be original. But it's a smaller open area, like you said. Certainly less than perfect.

There’s a few points for me there though;

1. An auction result isn’t guaranteed. There’s the pain/gain of it possibly going high due to emotional over exuberance or two bidders who simply must have it, but there’s also the possibility of it being a quiet day for buyers, competition from other lots etc that means it falls under market.
2. To my earlier point, if the seller wants to put in the hard yards or take a gamble at auction, more power to them. In this case it seems they’re sitting back while you’re doing the research to determine how correct the watch is and what a fair value is. If you’re doing this why would you then pay a premium?
2. With an auction the seller is potentially waiting months to be paid and will then pay a significant percentage to the auction house, eating into the final bid. In a private sale, the seller receives the whole amount immediately.

Completely agree and that’s why Good is a fair assessment in my view. It’s relatively unpolished but has certainly seen significant use and has surface scratches and knocks that prevent it being Very Good or Excellent

TBH, I just mentioned the hand issue because I happened to see it, but I think I would get used to the hands. The dial bothers me more.

I’d place it at good or slightly better… as well, as cleaning the crystal up would make a massive difference. The DON is in good shape and the dial/hands are attractive and matching.

I owe you all an update. Unusual for me, I took your collective advice and bought a different watch. This was made easier for me because my friend had another -68, but without the set, as well as a DNN.

I am pretty excited, needless to say. This dial set is very nice. The lume and hands are so much better. I think the hands on the other watch would have bothered me, like Dan S said, and perhaps others. The case is similar, and it doesn't have the flat foot crown, but it is still an era crown. There are several watchmaker marks so it received past servicing. The screw heads look okay, so no hacks. The movement is clean, although the gasket had turned to tar so its been awhile since it ran.

This was also a one owner watch, having come from the man who received it as a gift from his parents.

It's being serviced now. I will get a new Omega crystal but keep the crown and no polish on the lugs.

Thanks to all for your advice. Hopefully if this thread gets dug up in the future it will help others with their own difficult decisions.

No more delay, here are the pics: