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Faz
·Please edit your above quote. Those are not my words. They were in my post as quoted by another.
"Unicorn" or "Franken"? In any case an interesting story.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI've yet to see Perezcope shoot and miss. His recent Cartier Trash article was also very good.
Yes, regardless of all these facts were known before the article, at least now they are more widely known. I personally don't see a problem with that. If there are questions about what was donated, surely that could be solved easily by the person who did the donating...that would end the "conjecture" pretty quickly.
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Modest_Proposal
·Goldberger never said the watch was in the exact condition as it left the factory....
...I'm merely pointing out the sensationalism and conjecture in the article.
How is it sensationalism to point out that Goldberger withheld mentioning numerous replacement parts on a Rolex that had the potential to be the most expensive Rolex ever sold at auction?
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Larry S
··Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.I liked @janice&fred critique of this article. I also think the other comments are valid. This is hardly the only incident involving high profile cognoscenti, the watch press and the auction houses flogging watches of questionable provenance for huge money. This is done in full view of the collector community snaring the well heeled unsuspecting (or those with huge cash and parts to put it right).
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThis is hardly the only incident involving high profile cognoscenti, the watch press and the auction houses flogging watches of questionable provenance for huge money. This is done in full view of the collector community snaring the well heeled unsuspecting (or those with huge cash and parts to put it right).
More reason for these things to be "sensationalized" then, so fewer people get stung by this crap.
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janice&fred
·Yes, regardless of all these facts were known before the article, at least now they are more widely known. I personally don't see a problem with that. If there are questions about what was donated, surely that could be solved easily by the person who did the donating...that would end the "conjecture" pretty quickly.
I don't have a problem with the facts being more widely known either. My point in that reply to connieseamaster was that the author didn't uncover anything as if this was some sort of investigative journalism. The only thing new in the article is the conjecture. As far as what was donated, I think the article indicated that Hodinkee answered that question, but that the author questioned it. Again...more conjecture.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI don't have a problem with the facts being more widely known either. My point in that reply to connieseamaster was that the author didn't uncover anything as if this was some sort of investigative journalism. The only thing new in the article is the conjecture.
I don't think anyone needs to uncover anything new to write a story like this, so that seems like strange criticism. But I don't know enough about the situation to say with the same authority you seem to have that none of this is new (in fact this is the first I've heard of any of this). If you know of a place where all this has already been published, then by all means please provide a link.
As far as what was donated, I think the article indicated that Hodinkee answered that question, but that the author questioned it. Again...more conjecture.
Sure, they gave one account, and SJX gave another...
"Hodinkee wrote that all of the procceds went to Children Action. According to SJX Watches it was only the net proceeds of the hammer price, whatever that means."
So even without the "rumours" it appears that the question is not fully answered, and there are conflicting reports. I'm sure if Goldberger wanted to clear this up, he could do so easily. If you know him, maybe you should suggest it to end the "conjecture" that seems to bother you.
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Davidt
·I get @janice&fred point, that the Perezcope article is clearly not impartial and has an agenda. Perhaps it would carry more weight if it were objective and omitted the conjecture.
If true however, none of this reduces the shitiness of the whole business. Up close those pushers look atrocious and if they and the bezel were remanufactured (surely that’s the only option) they should certainly have been disclosed.
Unless the point is to deceive, why wouldn’t the seller have disclosed details about the restoration?
If true however, none of this reduces the shitiness of the whole business. Up close those pushers look atrocious and if they and the bezel were remanufactured (surely that’s the only option) they should certainly have been disclosed.
Unless the point is to deceive, why wouldn’t the seller have disclosed details about the restoration?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI get @janice&fred point, that the Perezcope article is clearly not impartial and has an agenda. Perhaps it would carry more weight if it were objective and omitted the conjecture.
If true however, none of this reduces the shitiness of the whole business. Up close those pushers look atrocious and if they and the bezel were remanufactured (surely that’s the only option) they should certainly have been disclosed.
Unless the point is to deceive, why wouldn’t the seller have disclosed details about the restoration?
Indeed he's not impartial, and has an agenda. But the questions is, is that a bad thing? I'm sure there are people who would rather not have the underbelly of the vintage world exposed (that has happened here numerous times), but I think it's a service to anyone who wants to buy vintage in the end.
I've felt his need to hammer Panerai over and over again is tiring and to the point of obsession at times, but you can't argue a whole lot with what's presented, generally.
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janice&fred
·If you know him, maybe you should suggest it to end the "conjecture" that seems to bother you.
Yes I have met him a few times and he doesn't strike me as one who would care about gossip/conjecture. The conjecture doesn't bother me really. I merely pointed out the flaws in the article. I also agree with all of you that don't like the cloak and dagger nature of high end watch dealing. There is no need for this imaginary line in the sand of yours.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerYes I have met him a few times and he doesn't strike me as one who would care about gossip/conjecture. The conjecture doesn't bother me really. I merely pointed out the flaws in the article. I also agree with all of you that don't like the cloak and dagger nature of high end watch dealing. There is no need for this imaginary line in the sand of yours.
Fair enough - you just talked about the conjecture a lot, that's all, so just going by what you have written.
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JMO1995
·Thanks for the link, that was a great read!
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SC1
·No offense, but I'll pass on a lap dance from both of you, thanks...
Sorta offended. Neither you nor @janice&fred have even seen me in a thong to pass that kind of judgement.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerSorta offended. Neither you nor @janice&fred have even seen me in a thong to pass that kind of judgement.
I intend to keep it that way. 😀
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Pascal S
·It was a very interesting read. And frankly I don't really get the objections shown by some about this article. Sure, its tone makes it look like it's uncovering some sort of huge conspiracy to deceive buyers, but this sort of "lying by omission" has been quite commonplace in many high-profile auctions. Someone mentioned Omegamania earlier in this thread, and indeed there were quite a few questionable watches being offered there. So I have no reason to believe that things have gone significantly better since. In fact, with prices soaring, it is all the more tempting to get creative and create hype around some watches that may not deserve all of it.
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tyrantlizardrex
·For clarity, "Daytona Ultimatum" was the one where a quantity of lots got pulled because the house was presented with evidence that they were fakes right?
Or was that another Phillips sale... I get lost with the sheer volume of bullshit flowing from the Bacs.
Or was that another Phillips sale... I get lost with the sheer volume of bullshit flowing from the Bacs.
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Larry S
··Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.My view is that guys who become respected go to sources of knowledge, should not allow themselves to be associated with the flogging of high priced Franken Watches….
Edited:
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pereztroika
·the author didn't uncover anything
The story was out there, sure, but afaik nobody except insiders knew Aurel Bacs was involved from the very beginning. Maybe you knew, others didn't as it was never revealed publicly.
Cheers
Jose