UK Politics

Tony C. · Jul 8, 2022

Engee
For the record, I'm not trying to defend Maxwell. As far as I'm concerned he was a despicable person. However, I have reasonably sensitive antennae when it comes to extreme anti-Israel / anti-semitic conspiracy theory and the caption over the photo set my alarm bells a-ringing.

Again, that Maxwell was associated with Mossad, and minimally did some work for them, is well known. There is no way in hell that Hersh would have won a substantial settlement in Western courts had that not been the case. Was he a "spy"? Well, that's a semantic point. He did at least some important work for the Israeli spy agency, so you can characterize him however you like.

I'm not going to bother listing other sources, but there are plenty.

Turpinr · Jul 8, 2022

STANDY
Anyone else in that group of guys done anything significant ?? Or vice versa

Cameron was PM before May and famously had a bet with Spaffer Johnson as regards being the country's leader.
Cameron is famous for Austerity and his liking of pigs

Peemacgee · Jul 8, 2022

STANDY
Anyone else in that group of guys done anything significant ?? Or vice versa

not really, just another British Tory PM 😁

(1) the Hon. Edward Sebastian Grigg, the heir to Baron Altrincham of Tormarton and current chairman of Credit Suisse (UK)

(2) David Cameron

(3) Ralph Perry Robinson, a former child actor, designer, furniture-maker

(4) Ewen Fergusson, son of the British ambassador to France, Sir Ewen Fergusson and now at City law firm Herbert Smith

(5) Matthew Benson, the heir to the Earldom of Wemyss and March

(6) Sebastian James, the son of Lord Northbourne, a major landowner in Kent

(7) Jonathan Ford, the-then president of the club, a banker with Morgan Grenfell

(8) Boris Johnson, the-then president of the Oxford Union

9) Harry Eastwood, the investment fund consultant

Engee · Jul 8, 2022

Tony C.
Again, that Maxwell was associated with Mossad, and minimally did some work for them, is well known. There is no way in hell that Hersh would have won a substantial settlement in Western courts had that not been the case. Was he a "spy"? Well, that's a semantic point. He did at least some important work for the Israeli spy agency, so you can characterize him however you like.

I'm not going to bother listing other sources, but there are plenty.

Not my point. My point is the singling out of the Mossad connection as a way to define him.

Peemacgee · Jul 8, 2022

Engee
Hmm. Israellobby.org. I think we know what tat organisation's agenda is then.

For the record, I'm not trying to defend Maxwell. As far as I'm concerned he was a despicable person. However, I have reasonably sensitive antennae when it comes to extreme anti-Israel / anti-semitic conspiracy theory and the caption over the photo set my alarm bells a-ringing.

Engee
Not my point. My point is the singling out of the Mossad connection as a way to define him.

There is no grand conspiracy theory in this particular case and I think I covered the use of the Mossad reference above.

If you look up references to Philby or Blunt I’m certain you will find them referred to as Russian spies.
It is a way of further defaming the defamed by reducing them to nothing more than traitors.

it just so happens that Maxwell was oh so more than just associated with a foreign security service - which was IMHO the least of his many indiscretions.

Archer · Jul 8, 2022

Peemacgee
not really, just another British Tory PM 😁

(1) the Hon. Edward Sebastian Grigg, the heir to Baron Altrincham of Tormarton and current chairman of Credit Suisse (UK)

(2) David Cameron

(3) Ralph Perry Robinson, a former child actor, designer, furniture-maker

(4) Ewen Fergusson, son of the British ambassador to France, Sir Ewen Fergusson and now at City law firm Herbert Smith

(5) Matthew Benson, the heir to the Earldom of Wemyss and March

(6) Sebastian James, the son of Lord Northbourne, a major landowner in Kent

(7) Jonathan Ford, the-then president of the club, a banker with Morgan Grenfell

(8) Boris Johnson, the-then president of the Oxford Union

9) Harry Eastwood, the investment fund consultant

So just a few few regular blokes then...

TimeODanaos · Jul 8, 2022

kkt
This sums up the situation. (Lots of swearing.)

Thank you @kkt , thank you. This wonderful video was true catharsis, and I feel so much better now. Yesterday I circulated some colleagues and friends with The Economist's "Clownfall" article as explanatory background reading. Today, I asked them to watch this video instead. Now I am at peace and can just go and watch Wimbledon with the (UK) news turned off. Thank you again.
👍

Tony C. · Jul 8, 2022

Engee
Not my point. My point is the singling out of the Mossad connection as a way to define him.

Well, as the woman in the photo was misidentified, it was presumably used for purposes of further sensationalism.

Turpinr · Jul 8, 2022

Walrus
Oh you haven’t been on many British boxing threads damn they go all out it’s quite interesting. I just liked Johnson because he had a cool haircut

A lot of people voted for him because of his hair, that's how sad it was.
As for boxing, his hero Churchill, barred Jack Johnson from defending his title in England because of his colour

Engee · Jul 8, 2022

Tony C.
Well, as the woman in the photo was misidentified, it was presumably used for purposes of further antisemitism.

Fify

Walrus · Jul 8, 2022

Turpinr
A lot of people voted for him because of his hair, that's how sad it was.
As for boxing, his hero Churchill, barred Jack Johnson from defending his title in England because of his colour

I was just kidding about the hair I’ll leave British politics to the British I do love watching the old clips of Jack Johnson. In the 15th round he was still moving like it was the 2nd

Tony C. · Jul 8, 2022

Engee
Fify

Fixed it? You saId:

Engee
However, I have reasonably sensitive antennae when it comes to extreme anti-Israel / anti-semitic conspiracy theory and the caption over the photo set my alarm bells a-ringing.

Characterizing Maxwell as an ex-Mossad agent, which is factually more accurate than not, as far as it goes, could hardly be considered to be "extreme anti-Israel / anti-semitic conspiracy theory". Sensational, relative to saying that he was a billionaire publisher? Yes, but that's about it.

Archer · Jul 8, 2022

Engee · Jul 8, 2022

Tony C.
Fixed it? You saId:

Characterizing Maxwell as an ex-Mossad agent, which is factually more accurate than not, as far as it goes, could hardly be considered to be "extreme anti-Israel / anti-semitic conspiracy theory". Sensational, relative to saying that he was a billionaire publisher? Yes, but that's about it.

But using a picture of someone who has nothing to do with Robert Maxwell to highlight his involvement with Mossad seems rather dubious, doesn't it?

Tony C. · Jul 8, 2022

Engee
But using a picture of someone who has nothing to do with Robert Maxwell to highlight his involvement with Mossad seems rather dubious, doesn't it?

Absolutely, and I was at fault for not doing any research on it. But I don't interpret it as being ant-Israel. Just clickbait.

Omegafanman · Jul 8, 2022

BBC still putting unfair pressure on Larry IMHO.
Having done a purrfect job as Chief Mouser, some think he may now put his paws in the ring with a leadership challenge
…

Peemacgee · Jul 8, 2022

"Well, as the woman in the photo was misidentified, it was presumably used for purposes of further antisemitism."
QUOTE="Engee, post: 2017018, member: 58988"]Fify[/QUOTE]

Have you heard the old story about the boy who cried wolf?
When there really was a wolf nobody believed him.

Can you not remember the huge furore that surrounded Robert Maxwell after his death when his misdemeanours were uncovered ?
Nobody really knew of or cared about Ghislane Maxwell (other than Maxwell senior had rather disturbingly named his yacht after her) but both left and right leaning papers would print anything to have a dig at him once it was proven that he was a crook.
(in this case mistakenly identifying Bozo's first wife for G Maxwell - who he was known to be friends with - as a vehicle to have a go at Maxwell senior)

I spend many hours pulling up friends and family when they conflate their distaste for the actions of the State of Israel (with regards their treatment of the Palestinians) with Judaism or Jews in general.
Please don't fall into the same trap by conflating the distaste for such a truly appalling and traitorous individual as Maxwell with anti-semitism - it does your cause no good at all and in fact is detrimental to it.
(and makes my task of highlighting genuine anti-semitism all the more difficult)

Rochete · Jul 8, 2022

Has anyone not worked for Mossad yet?

pdxleaf · Jul 8, 2022

Peemacgee
.
Please don't fall into the same trap by conflating the distaste for such a truly appalling and traitorous individual as Maxwell with anti-semitism - it does your cause no good at all and in fact is detrimental to it.
(and makes my task of highlighting genuine anti-semitism all the more difficult)

In either case (was or wasn't purposeful), it's not possible to know the intent of the original publisher. Even if innocent as you described, it can still be interpreted differently by a reader at a later date. Making people aware of this shouldn't be detrimental, any more than pointing out a tripping hazard in someone's path. It isn't necessary to know why the hazard is there, just that it's there. Also, there're plenty of reasons to be suspicious still, which seems enough to give the benefit of the doubt and simply say, "right you are, thanks mate" and move on.

Peemacgee · Jul 8, 2022

Rochete
Has anyone not worked for Mossad yet?

I did drink at lot of strong cider in my late teens and early twenties - so it’s just possible but I don’t remember.

UK Politics

Tony C.

Turpinr

Peemacgee

Engee

Peemacgee

Archer

TimeODanaos

Tony C.

Turpinr

Engee

Walrus

Tony C.

Archer

Engee

Tony C.

Omegafanman

Peemacgee

Rochete

pdxleaf

Peemacgee

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