A lot of speculation about a possible Submariner to be released today at 13.00 CET:



turns out it's a BB ceramic with METAS:

 

Yeah, I thought the METAS certification was an interesting touch. Bet we'll hear more about that from Fratello or ABTW, which I'm looking forward to!

As for the watch... I'm not really interested in black watches much anymore, I kinda feel like that trend has sort of been overdone at this point. Obviously the Tudor is typically nicely done, with the black movement finish a really cool touch and I think the dial looks nice. Maybe I'll want it if I ever see it in person, who knows... but it's just not going to have me running over to an AD to try it on is all.

As for the MN connection, I didn't see anything to suggest that this is the official one, either in the teasers or the announcement. Where'd that come from?

 

Only a lot of wishful thinking on a Dutch forum with regard to the text "return of a legend".

 

Interesting that a Tudor is now METAS certified. Isn't METAS a more stringent testing regime than COSC? Seems strange that the 'lesser' brand in the hierarchy would use a more intensive testing standard than Rolex.

 

Such a shame that it's 14.4mm thick. The METAS certification is interesting though. I wonder if it will be perceived as acquiescence or a slight towards Omega. I'd assume the latter considering it seems like Tudor is trying to reframe consumers' perception by drawing attention to itself competing with Omega rather than letting the focus be on Omega's competition with Rolex.

 

The deviation of -2/+2s for Rolex sounds better to me than 0~5s, so don't see Rolex switching just for the 15.000 Gauss.

 

New ceramic black bay 58 in 41mm with a metas certification...They are firing shots across the bow!! It's with leather and fabric band included as well.

 

True, but the -2/+2 bit is Rolex's own in-house accuracy standard I believe. Previously Tudor has used COSC, and presumably they are moving to METAS in the name of progress due to it being a better standard of certification. It therefore seems strange for Rolex to continue to use a 'lesser' standard, even if they do add their own accuracy checks on top.

 

Until yesterday wasn't Metas considered Omega in-house accuracy standard only, can't imagine Rolex thinking they have a "lesser" standard with regard to magnetism issues on their model line-up excluding the Milgauss (I could be wrong saying this).

 

I don't think Rolex would move to METAS, because that would be admitting that their current certification is a lesser certification.

No, METAS is not specific to Omega, although until now they were the only ones to use it. Just like COSC, any brand can submit watches to METAS for certification.

 

To my preference they kept this one at the "full size" 41mm.

I give them credit for what this does and doesn't do, but I wouldn't buy it, unless it wowed me in person. It strikes me as all the things the Omega Diver 300m Ceramic does, not the new Black Black one, in a less, on the whole, attractive package.

 

Is that not what they're tacitly doing with this move anyway though? Previously Tudor used COSC, yet they're moving to METAS for this watch (and presumably future watches) and are selling it as a benefit. Why make the change if it's not in the name of progress?

To have Rolex continuing to use the process that Tudor previously used (even if it only forms part of Rolex's overall certification) seems a bit backward to me.

 

As many have mentioned, it's definitely an interesting bait-and-switch vs. what was expected with the rumored MN partnership. So many people are disappointed that there wasn't a Pelagos refresh, but honestly, what did people expect? I love the Pelagos, but the BB is the cash cow for Tudor and they made the right business decision to drop another model here. That being said, there is a fine line to walk before having too many models (like Omega), and I think we're approaching that threshold. Maybe a few more colors?

I do like how Tudor is doing their own thing and relying on their Rolex connection less, though. First with the all titanium Pelagos and now with the ceramic BB. The METAS certification is nice and a great step forward (as well as a shot at Omega), but I don't think this watch will wind up on my list. I do hope that all the new Tudors come with METAS certification, though.

I would have loved to see the Pelagos refreshed (either smaller case, new color, new material, GMT complication, or all four), or the BB41 fitted with an in-house movement, but we'll have to wait for that!

 

The Rolex fans are already saying the Rolex's certification is "better" than METAS, based on their in-house tolerance - it's a misunderstanding of what "certification" means.

Just to clarify, when you say COSC is only part of the certification used by Rolex, that's not really correct. It is the only certification they use, and that standard is -4 to +6. They do have an in-house tolerance that is more stringent, but brands do this all the time. For example prior to METAS all Omega COSC watches that were certified to -4 to +6 had an internal tolerance that was -1 to +6.

An internal tolerance is not the same thing as certification. One is done by a third party, and one is based on your trust in the brand.

Also consider that METAS includes many things that COSC does not in terms of what they test, they also test a completed watch and not a bare bones movement that will be cased sometime later, and the tolerance of the certification is tighter.

On your point about the impact to Rolex either way, I see your point. But if you read the very Rolex centric forums right now, all the Rolex fanatics will tell you that Rolex is already far above Omega, and some of the more extreme fanboys will tell you that Rolex has surpassed the "trinity" brands of AP, VC, and PP (this is based purely on market values and desirability of the watches, not technical specs or watchmaking prowess). Brand positioning is less and less about what the watch actually is these days, and more about what the watch can do in the secondary market, so Rolex won't be hurt either way as long as this insane world we live in with regards to Rolex supply/demand continues.

The view I'm seeing of the converted faithful is that Tudor is now on par with Omega's ceramic Seamasters with this watch. If you actually look at the specs of this watch, it clearly isn't, but the Rolex faithful are not easily swayed by logic sometimes.

Perception is reality...now more than ever.

 

Thank you for the explanation Archer. I shouldn't have referred to Rolex's own standard as a certification as such, but glad you see what I mean. I agree that logic doesn't seem to apply to the current watch market!

 

Just as an interesting aside ... Metas has an office inside the Omega HQ (I know as I have seen it and stood outside the door back when things were normal and there were GTGs) ... would be funny if Tudor sent them to Omega for certification

 

Ceramic and METAS, that was unexpected... in a good way. My first thought was for Omega

Would you mind quickly expanding on this ?

 

METAS is nice with Tudor stretching their legs. IMO, this is a hard pass and seems like they’re moving away from a sport/tool watch to more a sport/design release, as evident by the removal of the depth rating text and replacing it with “Black Bay Master Chronometer” and lack of contrast on the dial and bezel insert.

So, holding out for the MN release hopefully in a BB58 case.

 

If you look at what parts of this watch are ceramic, it's the mid-case and the bezel insert. The bezel, crown, and case back are steel with PVD coating. When that coating wears, you are going to have a nice shiny deep black mid case, and parts that look worn...

 

ceramic aside, in general I have always perceived Omega seamster series to be superior to their equivalents on Tudor. It is MY perception, right or wrong, but having had both brands I like the feel, finishing and movements of Omega better the Tudor, specially the ETA movements ones (and I don't have anything against ETA.

Similarly, with plenty of exceptions, I tend to like Rolex over Omega.

The only Tudor I have left (of about 5 owned) s the blue heritage chronology, and I love it, but I really wish it was not a modular Chrono and had a slimmer profile.