Since I have acquired an SM300 (166.024) from 1968, and have decided to keep it, I have made the decision to diversify the watches that I own. I've been a Rolex person since I can remember, and started acquiring them a couple of years ago, but now I feel like it would be biased of me not to consider other brands. I really liked the SM300 for the few days that I had it in my hands, she's being serviced right now, so I think another Omega that is representative of the brand would be necessary to add to my meager collection. In the Rolex camp I have a 1968 GMT, 1970 Red Sub, and a 1983 5513 as my daily. In the Omega camp I have the SM300 and I'd like to add a Speedmaster.

So, the Speedmaster I think I'd be most interested in is the 145.022 861 from 1968. SO I guess my questions are as follows:

1) What is the difference between the 361 and the 861

2) I really like the applied logo, it's very interesting to me, asthetically. Is that just on the 68 and not the 69? I know earlier models yes but I'm talking about the 145.022

3) What is the difference in the case thickness between the 68 and the 69? I believe I saw an image where the cases look different.

4) What are step dials? Is that the "bevel depth" of the subdials and if so what is the difference between the 68 and the 69?

5) I just want to confirm that there is no applied logo on a 69.

6) Should I be looking at something different?

I'm not crazy about straight lugs of the earlier models, one of the things that has captured my attention with vintage omega was the case of the SM300 and the way the lugs are shaped.

Thanks in advance and as soon as my SM300 comes back from ABC I'll be officially posting her.

Pete

 

I'm sure the experts are going to jump in soon with the information you are looking for but until then Google Transitional Speedmaster and you will find enough information on 68' Speedmasters to keep you busy reading and looking at images for days.

The 68' Transitional Speedmasters are my favorite. The beauty of the older 321 style dial and the comfort of knowing that the 861 movement may be a bit easier to get serviced as time goes on was the most appealing thing to me.

I know Spacefruit has posted numerous threads regarding transitionals that were a wealth of information to me when I began my 68' quest.

Here are some pictures of my two 68's to hold you over....

 

A quick shot of my 165.024, 24j cal 550

Here's a link to info on difference in movements. http://chronomaddox.com/moonwatch_cal_background.html

To my knowledge, only the 145.022's in 1968 used the applied silver logo dial. I have only purchased/seen 145.022-69's with painted logo.

Too me, the stepped dial refers to the raised minute track of the main dial. The sub-dials are sunk on models up to around the early-mid 70's.

The model you're looking for won't be terribly difficult to find, but you will as always pay for condition of dial/hands/bezel. You will likely pay up to a $700, premium for a period correct 1039 flat full 26 link bracelet that is not stretched/worn out. Many collectors think these are too flimsy, but I like the originality and find them to be quite strong.

 

chronomaddox is the source for all things speedy!

 

I have a 1039 in near mint condition that came with the sm300. The sm300 was worn for about a year in vietnam and then sat in storage for 43 years believe it or not.

as I research the transitionals, I feel like I'll be paying a premium for a decent watch. I was hoping to get one for around $2500 but it appears that's going to be a pipe dream.

 

Actualy it will perhaps not be as easy today as it was. (Perhaps this applies to many speedmasters, as I see less and less in the market. )

"Transitionals", as used in referring to pre '69, (861 calibre) speedmasters, are less available than they were. Some patience and diligence will be needed to find a correct one. There are many more 145.012's than transitionals, and until you take the back off they are indistinguishable. Which is part of the attraction.

The 861 will be easier to maintain than the 321 because of the latter's finite, and dwindling, parts supply. Both in my experience are robust. They both appear able at times to function after many years of abuse and lack of attention.

I find this era also throws up some lovely dials. These are worth more to me, but it is very hard to see this properly from photos. The heart of the value, once the correctness of the parts is established, is the state of the dial, and in my experience transitionals often exhibit an attractive colour.

There is no difference in case thickness.

Good luck in your search.