Trading in Omega Watches

sc-uk · Oct 15, 2013

Hi,

Not sure if this is the correct place to start this thread, hopefully it is.

So I have previously dabbled in trading other non watch related items, and due to being mesmerised by sparkly expensive items I thought I might give trading in Omega watches a go - specifically the Seamaster range (black face), so I put my first bid in yesterday to an auctioneer for a watch I thought I might get at a good price (it needed some work doing to it) but alas missed out by £60. The concept of 'Buyers Premium' is one I am still trying to get my head around - if anyone can enlighten me?!

My questions is, is there anyone on here successfully trading in watches - I am not expecting anyone to tell trade secrets although sourcing watches (at least in any quantity) at good prices has eluded me so far; I am weary of Gumtree and the likes due to the apparent flood of obvious fakes, but then some less conspicuous ones too.
My 'business model' (in the loosest sense of the term) would be to buy low priced, poorly marketed watches, spend money doing them up (water test, jeweller auth. cert. etc), and sourcing (looks like its got to be fake?) boxes to sell on and hopefully turn a profit. Seen there are a few guys on eBay that seriously trade Omega watches, presumably full time - eBay would be my preferred outlet although if I can demonstrate to myself that there is profitability in this then my long term plan would be to get an eCommerce site up and running as I can do this in house quite quickly.

Any advice or look out points anyone can recommend would be appreciated - I continue to do my research on a daily basis, so learning all the time. Thank you.

cicindela · Oct 15, 2013

It might be advisable to start by studying about these watches through combined venues over a long period of time. There is a rather steep learning curve and without a lot of knowledge you could end up buying a lot of junk (and much of what is out there is junk), that you will lose money on due to you own ignorance. Indeed, the learning curve is so steep that it is equally steep with just about every brand that you might select to collect or sell. Collectors buy the watches. Collectors do not merely eschew fakes, but poorly rehabilitated, poorly refinished, redialed, frankenized, polished, worn-out, broken, undesirable, non rare, unattractive and let;s not forget quartz.
There is much preparation you most do, not the least of which is to find a good watchmaker specializing in vintage watches that likes you and wants your business. If you truly love watches and wish to pursue this I would advise to tread slowly and softly.

ulackfocus · Oct 15, 2013

The sellers you see on eBay are finding the watches at estate sales or other person-to-person venues, not at auctions where the value is known and the bidders end up paying near market value. These sellers know the brand inside and out. It's not for the casual observer. Knowing things like correct fonts, what fonts were printed on dials that were installed on what movements, what movements went in what case numbers, and what crowns were correct for those cases is imperative to getting good money for a vintage watch. As Steve noted above, many of us took years to learn what we know now - and we're not reselling as a business, just as collectors who seek the next step up the ladder in rarity or condition.

The way to make a small fortune in vintage watches is to start with a large one. 😁

Stewart H · Oct 15, 2013

U ulackfocus
The way to make a small fortune in vintage watches is to start with a large one. 😁

Oi, I represent that remark. 😬

But I do have a nice collection of vintage watches.😉

Alpha · Oct 15, 2013

Or if you are really lucky, start off with nothing and have most of it left plus a few nice pieces 😉

Mothra · Oct 15, 2013

Ok, I've been watching a few uk auctions as well, and have a couple of points. It is important to understand buyers premium - this is an additional charge levied by the auction house and can be as high as 20%. In the uk, you will then pay vat on that buyers premium, and if buying online will pay another charge, and may pay for postage and i think possibly pay a credit card handling charge as well.

That means that £1000 speedmaster you just bought could wind up costing you £1400 plus your ebay selling fees - you need an incredibly good buy to make a profit. The other thing is the watches i see at auction often seem to be in really bad condition, may not have run for years, and the auction houses often seem to miss redials or really serious issues with the watches.

My conclusion was if i want to buy at auction, i have to be there in person to check the watch and to minimise my costs, and if i want a good deal its going to have to be an unusual watch that noone else in the room wants to touch. That could still work for me, but I'm not sure it would work as a get rich quick scheme.

it always surprises me how many people think they 'missed out by £60' when in reality all they know is what it would have taken to outbid the guy who came second, not the auction winner...

sc-uk · Oct 15, 2013

cicindela
There is much preparation you most do, not the least of which is to find a good watchmaker specializing in vintage watches that likes you and wants your business. If you truly love watches and wish to pursue this I would advise to tread slowly and softly.

thanks for your advice, I have been watching the markets closely and trying to understand what makes one watch sell for X and a seemingly identical one selling for Y, even from the same seller - there are a lot of factors to understand, I have been making lists of sold prices, condition, caliber, age, etc, which will hopefully help. Coincidentally my local watchmaker has a keen interest in Omega watches and has already given me lots of pointers, seems keen for the business. Thank you.

sc-uk · Oct 15, 2013

U ulackfocus
The sellers you see on eBay are finding the watches at estate sales or other person-to-person venues, not at auctions where the value is known and the bidders end up paying near market value. These sellers know the brand inside and out. It's not for the casual observer. Knowing things like correct fonts, what fonts were printed on dials that were installed on what movements, what movements went in what case numbers, and what crowns were correct for those cases is imperative to getting good money for a vintage watch. As Steve noted above, many of us took years to learn what we know now - and we're not reselling as a business, just as collectors who seek the next step up the ladder in rarity or condition.

The way to make a small fortune in vintage watches is to start with a large one. 😁

yes, on the face of it, auction value estimates appear attractive, but once you add the buyers premium and all other costs I already don't believe this is the place to source them, like eBay you will be bidding against buyers who do not have to consider profit margins. Thanks for your points above, as a watch collector where is your preferred market? I would have thought that a reputable jeweller would offer the most piece of mind, although I suppose if you know the right questions to ask to weed out the 'junk', eBay could be viable?

sc-uk · Oct 15, 2013

Mothra
Ok, I've been watching a few uk auctions as well, and have a couple of points. It is important to understand buyers premium - this is an additional charge levied by the auction house and can be as high as 20%. In the uk, you will then pay vat on that buyers premium, and if buying online will pay another charge, and may pay for postage and i think possibly pay a credit card handling charge as well.

That means that £1000 speedmaster you just bought could wind up costing you £1400 plus your ebay selling fees - you need an incredibly good buy to make a profit. The other thing is the watches i see at auction often seem to be in really bad condition, may not have run for years, and the auction houses often seem to miss redials or really serious issues with the watches.

My conclusion was if i want to buy at auction, i have to be there in person to check the watch and to minimise my costs, and if i want a good deal its going to have to be an unusual watch that noone else in the room wants to touch. That could still work for me, but I'm not sure it would work as a get rich quick scheme.

it always surprises me how many people think they 'missed out by £60' when in reality all they know is what it would have taken to outbid the guy who came second, not the auction winner...

i was quite taken aback by the buyers premium and how high it is, I always used to think how expensive eBay and PayPal are, puts it into perspective.
yeah you are right, not sure what the others buyers game plan was, all I knew was what my maximum bid was for said lot, and I always stick to it, otherwise unless you are buying for yourself it can be a dangerous strategy.

dsio · Oct 15, 2013

There are people that make money out of it, but very few, and a lot of what you're talking about just wouldn't work.

ulackfocus · Oct 15, 2013

sc-uk
as a watch collector where is your preferred market?

Anywhere watches are sold. 😉 I trust my instincts and knowledge to make good decisions.

sc-uk
I would have thought that a reputable jeweller would offer the most piece of mind

A reputable watchmaker is better. Jewelers sometimes are not watch people.

sc-uk
if you know the right questions to ask to weed out the 'junk', eBay could be viable?

Oh sure, eBay can be very viable - if you're willing to sift through hundreds or thousands of listings for months looking for a gem or two. I'd say that when dealing with Omega vintage watches, 1 in every 40 - 60 listings will be a decent watch and that's not even factoring in the asking price if it's Buy It Now. When you look for worthwhile watches as a beginner, there's plenty of Seamaster De Villes, Seamasters, Geneves, and other relatively common pieces to be had if you can win it or negotiate a fair price. Jump up the ladder to pie pan Constellations and there's a TON more shenanigans going on so let's say 1 in every 120 - 200 listings are correct collector pieces, and it's way worse when it comes to the more valuable / rare variations. We've seen a few very rare Seamaster Pie Pans pop up in the last couple years, but only a select handful have been original and even worth considering. The 2 or 3 nice ones are owned by the members here, the other substandard and redialed ones went elsewhere.

Don't know if you relate to Longines, but in the last 5 years I've seen a Flagship automatic caliber 341 model with the date window at 12 pop up once a year or so. Of the 5 or 6, I own both of the original dialed offerings and let the other redials go. That's 2 in 5 years - 1 original unpolished version that's all a finicky collector could hope for, the other acceptable because the dial and caseback are great but the lugs are overpolished. If I didn't know the redials from the originals I'd be out some serious coin.

Trading in Omega Watches

sc-uk

cicindela

ulackfocus

Stewart H

Alpha

Mothra

sc-uk

sc-uk

sc-uk

dsio

ulackfocus

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