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Tipping

Archer
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Tipping is simply a horrible way to pay people. It is open to abuse from customers and employers. For every story seen through rose coloured glasses about how much you can make per night at a good restaurant, that is not the reality for most.

Tips rarely go directly to the wait staff - they are often pooled and redistributed at the end of the night. This is referred to as "tip out" where everyone gets a cut, often that includes the business owner. Often the tip out is a calculated thing that is a percentage of the sales, and even if you don't get tipped at the normal level for whatever reason, say the kitchen has a bad night because some cook doesn't show up and everything runs late for example, you will still be expected as a server to contribute your share. This means that you could be paying out of pocket from your wages because some arsehole customer didn't tip you at all, or at the normal amount.

This is why, although I am against tipping, I will always tip generously. The sooner this madness ends, the better. Sadly, since the pandemic, it has only gotten worse in terms of the scope, with fast food places and other non-traditional services, wanting tips. Some places are pushing back - they clearly indicate tipping is not required and that they are paying their servicers a proper wage. I will always prioritize this type of establishment personally.

It's very refreshing to go to a place like Australia, where tipping isn't the norm.
 
redzer007
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Speed2Sea Speed2Sea
Hi folks, I don’t want to belabor this topic, but does anyone have experience with tipping on a restaurant bill in Greece? Thanks in advance for your responses.
10% and you're all good. And food is cheap and generally excellent. Mmmmmm want some tzatzeki now
 
RI Omega Fan
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And now, a lot of places are charging yet another 3% if you pay with a credit card. 🤬 Isn’t that “the cost of doing business”, as the old saying goes? Who carries cash anymore?

Also, it almost seems like a bragging right for some people to leave a big tip - it’s they’re chance to look like a big spender. Admittedly, I do have some smug douche bags for friends…
 
Evitzee
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RI Omega Fan RI Omega Fan
And now, a lot of places are charging yet another 3% if you pay with a credit card. 🤬 Isn’t that “the cost of doing business”, as the old saying goes? Who carries cash anymore?
Somebody has to pay for the 'free' rewards the people love by using credit cards. There really is no free lunch. Everything is transactional at a cost to someone.
 
Pastorbottle
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Evitzee Evitzee
Somebody has to pay for the 'free' rewards the people love by using credit cards. There really is no free lunch. Everything is transactional at a cost to someone.
I always carry cash, I don't do credit cards, I have a direct debit account with an overdraft facility for emergencies, and a separate direct debit account for online payments. I live within my means!
 
kkt
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Speed2Sea Speed2Sea
I've encountered 'service charges' on restaurant bills that weren’t noted on the menu. When I asked about them, they said it’s to provide health insurance for employees. Of course, there’s no way to verify that.
I've had those service charges, but they have been listed on the menu... in tiny print at the bottom of the last page. The service charges say they are mandatory, so they ought to be part of the prices listed on the menu, not added on afterwards. In Seattle the restaurant can pay a slightly lower wage if they include health insurance. It's still deliberately confusing.
 
Pastorbottle
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kkt kkt
I've had those service charges, but they have been listed on the menu... in tiny print at the bottom of the last page. The service charges say they are mandatory, so they ought to be part of the prices listed on the menu, not added on afterwards. In Seattle the restaurant can pay a slightly lower wage if they include health insurance. It's still deliberately confusing.
All this nonsense is only leaving the door open the exploitation of staff and dubious rip offs of customers, it needs eliminating with extrema prejudice.....but good luck with that in what would appear to be the new lawless wild west........never gonna happen, just gonna get worse from my thankfully far away vantage point.
 
alane24
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I only tip on the pre-tax amount of the bill. Anyone else do this? I used to tip on the total amount, but then figured it was silly to be basing my tip amount with the tax included. And I don't subscribe to a rule of 15-20% of the bill, it all depends on the service. "tipping culture" in America is out of freaking control.
 
BlackTalon
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The general 'rule' of 20% at full-service restaurants is supposed to be based on the pretax total. That being said, you get the stink eye if you do not include tip on the tax as well (which is 10 friggin' % around the DC area). So we generally tip ~22%. I'll round it down a little if there was a hiccup with service or the food. And up a little if everything was stellar.

I pay a little more based on the (often incorrect) hope the server will kick some of the $ to the kitchen staff. If I could, I would direct 50% to the kitchen and 50% to the FOH, as I thing servers get way too much $ while the prep and line cooks, dishwashers, etc. barely get enough pay to afford a room.
 
bsowers34
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I don't tip. How? Simple, I do not eat out or generally use any services that expect a tip. I'm very frugal, that's how I can afford what matters, like watches.
 
Tony C.
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
But tipping usually only goes to the servers, and those in the kitchen rarely see any of that tip money.
Perhaps times have changed, but I was once a waiter at a nice restaurant in Chicago, and we shared a portion of our tips with both the bus boys and service bartenders. The kitchen staff were paid far higher base wages than the wait staff, which I assume is still standard practice.
 
BlackTalon
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Tony C. Tony C.
Perhaps times have changed, but I was once a waiter at a nice restaurant in Chicago, and we shared a portion of our tips with both the bus boys and service bartenders. The kitchen staff were paid far higher base wages than the wait staff, which I assume is still standard practice.
Varies a lot from place to place. I know quite a few people who work/ have worked in kitchens and the majority did not see a share of tips. "Far higher" is ~$16-$17/ hr for a line cook; they'll work 8+ hours for $140. A server will easily clear more than that with two seatings in their section, and will often see 3 seatings on weekend nights. They can walk away from 6 hours of working with $200-$300 -- and more at higher end places.
 
Pastorbottle
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
Varies a lot from place to place. I know quite a few people who work/ have worked in kitchens and the majority did not see a share of tips. "Far higher" is ~$16-$17/ hr for a line cook; they'll work 8+ hours for $140. A server will easily clear more than that with two seatings in their section, and will often see 3 seatings on weekend nights. They can walk away from 6 hours of working with $200-$300 -- and more at higher end places.
Poor bastards.....I wouldn't get outta bed for that money!
 
kippyk
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
I always carry cash, I don't do credit cards, I have a direct debit account with an overdraft facility for emergencies, and a separate direct debit account for online payments. I live within my means!
This is not a good idea. In case of fraud, your checking account will be drained, then the overdarft protection will let money not even in your account to be drained. There is no credit card company between you and the store/fraudster that will protect you. The banks will not support you and you will be screwed. There is no cosumer protection for this type of fraud.

If the bank thinks you were careless, there is absolutely no recourse. There is no clawing back the money. You have been warned.

Get a credit card and pay it off each month. Not that complicated and you get the protection of the credit card company.
 
BlackTalon
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kippyk kippyk
This is not a good idea. In case of fraud, your checking account will be drained, then the overdarft protection will let money not even in your account to be drained. There is no credit card company between you and the store/fraudster that will protect you. The banks will not support you and you will be screwed. There is no cosumer protection for this type of fraud.

If the bank thinks you were careless, there is absolutely no recourse. There is no clawing back the money. You have been warned.

Get a credit card and pay it off each month. Not that complicated and you get the protection of the credit card company.
This may vary country-to-country. But here in the US I am 100% on-board with what you say. I had an identity theft some 25 years ago. The changed my address and had Bank of America overnight them a debit card, and they started racking up ATM and cashiers check withdrawals the next day. It happened while I was on vacation for less than a week, and I returned home to a mailbox containing the change of address verification and notice that a debit card was sent. Please bear in mind I had declined the offer of a debit card several times prior to this event, as I only wanted a regular ATM card. After going several rounds with Bank of America (they threatened to prosecute me if I was the one who committed the fraud), they agreed to put a lock on my accounts prohibiting issuing a debit card unless I went to a branch in person to provide my identity.

Again, this is in the US. There are many other countries where using debit cards instead of credit cards is completely normal.
 
YY77
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
There are many other countries where using debit cards instead of credit cards is completely normal.
And even having a creditcard here (Netherlands) the whole paying the CC debts with another CC (US?) is mindboggling to us.
 
BlackTalon
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I dunno. I pay off my credit card every month. They let me use their money for free for 30-45 days. I have not carried over a CC balance for >30 years, and that's when I bought a PC shortly after buying a condo -- the PC cost a month's worth of take-home pay and funds were low following closing. Some people play games like you indicate, but most do not.
 
Dan S
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
I dunno. I pay off my credit card every month. They let me use their money for free for 30-45 days. I have not carried over a CC balance for >30 years, and that's when I bought a PC shortly after buying a condo -- the PC cost a month's worth of take-home pay and funds were low following closing. Some people play games like you indicate, but most do not.
Might as well get the rewards since the fee will be charged regardless. 👍
 
Pastorbottle
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BlackTalon BlackTalon
This may vary country-to-country. But here in the US I am 100% on-board with what you say. I had an identity theft some 25 years ago. The changed my address and had Bank of America overnight them a debit card, and they started racking up ATM and cashiers check withdrawals the next day. It happened while I was on vacation for less than a week, and I returned home to a mailbox containing the change of address verification and notice that a debit card was sent. Please bear in mind I had declined the offer of a debit card several times prior to this event, as I only wanted a regular ATM card. After going several rounds with Bank of America (they threatened to prosecute me if I was the one who committed the fraud), they agreed to put a lock on my accounts prohibiting issuing a debit card unless I went to a branch in person to provide my identity.

Again, this is in the US. There are many other countries where using debit cards instead of credit cards is completely normal.
This is one of those countries, I had my card skimmed at one of the banks teller machines and got 100% reimbursed from the bank.
Also you limit the exposure by only having enough in your Online account to do your online purchases.
The more i see of the big business free for all the seems to be the US the happier I am to be Aussie
Nothing personal guys, but I don't even want to visit.
 
Dan S
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
This is one of those countries, I had my card skimmed at one of the banks teller machines and got 100% reimbursed from the bank.
Also you limit the exposure by only having enough in your Online account to do your online purchases.
The more i see of the big business free for all the seems to be the US the happier I am to be Aussie
Nothing personal guys, but I don't even want to visit.
Join the club, it looks like tourism to the US is tanking due to negative feelings. Industry insiders are calling it "Make America Hated Again."
 
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