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  1. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 5, 2017

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    I am thinking of purchasing this Connie 168.005. However after reading all the different bloggs, threads and articles about counterfit cases, dials etc. I am a little hesitant. I would much appreciate your help. I have analysed the dial and it seems to pass the MOY-test. I have also looked at the lettering and it looks correct. It seems to be in good shape besides a mark at the dial at minute marker 7. According to the seller it should be cal. 551 which is also correct. However I haven't received a photo of the caseback or movement.The case seems to have been polished in the past. What do you think? Is it a pass or does it look fine for the money? The seller is asking 1200 USD.
    Thank you!
     
    Connie 1.jpg connie 2.jpg Connie 3.jpg connie 4.jpg connie 5.jpg Connie 6.jpg connie 7.jpg
  2. CanberraOmega

    CanberraOmega Rabbitohs and Whisky Supporter Jan 5, 2017

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    Hello and welcome.
    Love the screen name - I'm imagining some action movie featuring Mozart!

    Well done on doing your initial research. I agree the dial looks original. The case also looks original - the most common fake of these stainless steel constellations have a date window.

    Pending pictures of the internals, I think it looks like a reasonable watch, at a reasonable price.
     
  3. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 5, 2017

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    Haha, the screen name is classic, two complete opposites. John Rambo playing the piano or Mozart beeing an action hero. However one looks at it, it's probably a movie that will never see the day of light:)

    Thank you for the quick reply. I will see if I can get any pictures of the internals. You don't think it looks overpolished?
     
  4. CanberraOmega

    CanberraOmega Rabbitohs and Whisky Supporter Jan 5, 2017

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    Hey, they made Predator vs Alien, so why not Rambo vs Mozart!
     
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  5. Edward53

    Edward53 Jan 5, 2017

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    I also think everything looks ok and original. As you say, it's been polished but is still within acceptable limits. The price seems high to me. Maybe I'm out of touch but for that money I would expect a pristine unpolished example. That's if it is a private seller which I presume is the case here.
     
  6. al128

    al128 unsolicited co-moderation giverer Jan 5, 2017

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    +1 on expensive... I had a tough time selling a better exemplar for 700ish a year ago
     
  7. tdn-dk

    tdn-dk Jan 5, 2017

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    Ref. 168.005 is a Date version so something is wrong.....

    None date should be a 167.005 cal. 551
     
    Edited Jan 5, 2017
    Woodward likes this.
  8. Tom Dick

    Tom Dick and Harry Jan 5, 2017

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    That dent in the dial puts me instantly off, I bought a near NOS pie pan with a dent just like that and could never get it right so flipped it
     
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  9. Vicke

    Vicke Jan 5, 2017

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    561 and 564 are date calibers, 551 is correct for non date. I think the seller don't know what he has. Photo of caseback (and movement) would be good to confirm.
     
  10. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 5, 2017

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    Thank you for all the quick responses. You are correct, my bad. The seller is selling 2 watches. The no date was a 167.005. It is now however sold :/

    He has the 168.005 with Cal.561 left. However I think the dial looks a bit suspicious. The right hand side of the crosshair is thicker. Is it a redial or a re-touch of the original dial (As MOY etc. seems fine). It is in need of service and the asking price is 670 USD.

    I am intereseted in a pie-pan so if you have anything interesting, please PM me :)
     
    connie cross 1.jpg connie cross 2.jpg connie cross 3.jpg connie cross 4.jpg
  11. Vicke

    Vicke Jan 5, 2017

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    Someone did a really bad job trying to repaint that line. It's not even straight ::puke::
    I wouldn't buy that watch. Have some patience and a better one will come along.
     
  12. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 5, 2017

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    That could be because of scratches or dust on the crystal. Really no way to know for sure. If you made me choose, I'd say original.

    The price is a bit below current market. I would not buy the watch without a look at the movement. These may be frankened up very easily.

    If it is otherwise in good shape, and after investing another $200 or so in a proper service, you'll have a very nice Constellation at a reasonable price. However, if you have to start replacing a lot of parts, it could be a money pit. Again, no way to know from the pictures shown.

    How much of a gambler are you?
    gatorcpa

    PS - One thing that is original on this example is the crown. The other watch had an incorrect replacement crown from an earlier Constellation model. So one point for the 168.005.
     
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  13. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 5, 2017

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    I see the crosshair portion near the date that Vicke may be referring to, however having been looking at a lot of these lately overall the dial feels original to me and the case pretty good with some polishing on the back.
     
  14. mbeast

    mbeast Jan 5, 2017

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    I think the dial is almost certainly original and it looks very nice
     
  15. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 5, 2017

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    Thank you for all the advice. I got some additional pictures from the seller. He has been very cooperative in supplying all the information I have requested. It is a cal.564 which however needs servicing. According to the seller the crown is a little stiff (I believe I have read about this issue on several Cal.564). He has had a closer look and also said that the right side of the crosshair looks a little bit thicker. Don't know if that should be a dealbreaker, can this be restored?
     
    IMG_3738.JPG IMG_3739.JPG
  16. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 5, 2017

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  17. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 5, 2017

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    Movement serial.no is 24xxx which seems correct to the case and period. Correct @gatorcpa ?

    I am leaning towards buying it. Hopefully it won't be a moneypit :)

    Once again thank you for all the advice, I am astonished on the amout of knowledge you all possess.
     
  18. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 5, 2017

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    Pictures are better, but still of poor quality. I can't really see what either of you are referring to. Even if I did, you could look at 100 of these with original dials and they would all be a tiny bit different. It could be that the dial was scratched and partially restored?

    No matter, I would not touch the dial. No good can come of it. It is what it is, or don't buy it at all.

    What I can see is that there is a small amount of rubbing of the rotor assembly against the center bridge. This will need to be addressed as part of the normal service, although you may need a new rotor bearing. I don't know if these parts are still available from Ofrei.com or Jules Borel.

    When I bought mine several years ago (cal. 551), it likely had the same issue as the center bridge was replaced with one from a non-chronometer movement (cal. 552). Back then, it was simple to get a properly engraved bridge (cost $20) and have the watchmaker install it. Nowadays, not so much.

    Yes, I agree. Probably from 1966-67 time frame.
    gatorcpa
     
  19. rambo_amadeus

    rambo_amadeus Jan 6, 2017

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    Ok, I see it now as you mention it. Does this mean that the whole rotor assembly and center bridge needs to be replaced? I have managed to find a used rotor and center bridge. However as you mention, it's no $20. Used I have found for $200. I am a bit more hesitant now as it might turn up to be a money pit. Probably a $200 service will not be the end of it. What do you think, pass and look for another watch?
     
  20. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Jan 6, 2017

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    Sometimes this can be tightened by the watchmaker, other times replacement parts have to be used. So an amount between $0 - $70 would, probably, be the price for correcting it. Basically, until a watchmaker has a look, no-one can tell.