Hello, I've been going through the forum here, and this is by far the best place to learn and discuss El Primeros.

After much reading and deliberation, I've decided that I'd like to add to my (very small) collection and take the plunge on a vintage El Primero. While I love the new revival and anniversary pieces, the chance to own one of the originals is too much to pass up.

There are currently two El Primero A385s listed on ebay from 2 reputable sellers (>700 positive reviews and many watches sold). Can I please ask for insights into both of these watches. Judging from the pictures, are there any yellow/red flags that jump out? Both seem well-kept, and I've communicated with the sellers to learn more. I notice some differences but I lack a trained eye. Both watches have been recently serviced and the sellers do appear to be sincere people who care about watches, but prior history is unknown (and therefore the main risk).

Both watches look like Mark 3s (something I learned about from reading this forum).

Finally, it appears that $6k is the right range for an original A385. Is that still accurate?

First watch: Seller told me he has replaced the missing screw in the middle of the rotor.
Link to listing is here Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network



Second watch: (crown is not original, chrono hands appears serviced)
Listing is herePurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

IMHO the second one is significantly overpriced especially with service hand and replacement crown. Recently one sold on eBay that also needed a new chrono hand but it was $3500. I'd wait a little longer and find the right one

 

Hi, Asrnj77. I saw that listing as well. Thanks for the advice. Reading these forums is really helping me make better informed decisions, and this forum in particular is very helpful. Will keep an eye out.

 

The first looks better and quite good in my opinion.
Pay attenction on sub dial, ask better photos.
A385 is fantastic when the subdials are white and clean.
The price is too expansive for me, the watch hasn’t his GF bracelet and it is very difficoult to find correct end links

 

That's a beauty of a watch, Preacher. That's a great photo.

Why are the end links difficult to find? If I want to try different types of bracelets or straps, is there a particular type that I have to look for?

Thanks again for the advice!

 

Correct end links are ZKM, difficultly you will find them, and if you will find you will pay not less of 1k.
GF bracelet is easy to find without end links (about 3/400 euros)

 

Hello,

Man, trying to find a good vintage El Primero's is tough treasure hunting! I noticed this watch and saw that the crown is different from others that have the Zenith star on it. Can someone please tell me if this is an authentic crown or a replacement?

Thank you in advance.

This is the crown that looks different from others I've seen:


This is the type of crown that I've seen more often, where the star on the crown matches the star on the caseback:

 

While I'm here: this is the photo of the watch with the crown in question. To me, it looks like the best of the 3 I've pictured here: sub-dials are very clean, and all the hands look good. Would you guys agree?

This is the movement. I'm not sure why there's so much fuzz/dust/wood chip looking things around it...

 

I try to help you (I’m not a super expert).
Right crown is the second you posted.
The watch has wrong hands. Right hands are black inside and argente on the sides, crown is uncorrect dial looks good.
Movement has uncorrect parts (17 Jewels !!!)
Some doubt on the case but it depends on the photo’s quality.
For me look for something better
Bye

 

Preacher, thanks again for your awesome eye. The 17 jewels is something I should have noticed right away.

 

17 jewels can be correct on Zenith El Primero. The US market received 17 Jewel movements due to import tariffs on higher jewel count movements

 

Every time happy to learn something!
I’ve never seen before 17j in EP 3019, but I’m in Europe

 

This is a Zenith service crown. Pretty common on the early El Primero from late 60s early 70s.

 

This one is also a replacement crown. The correct crowns have the same design of NATO logo in a circle, though they are larger than the one in your photo and should measure 6.4mm

 

@barbecoa The A385 is a great reference, and a very undervalued watch in my opinion.
To me, the beauty in all of these cushion-shaped vintage El Primero references is in the original factory finish.
Once these cases are re-polished (unless it is done by a super expert refinisher) they really lose all appeal (to me).

To be honest, both of the watches you have posted look like thy have pretty weak cases.
Of course finding an example in stellar condition with a razor sharp case will cost you more money, but in my opinion it will be money well spent.
I say be patient, take your time and wait for a better example to pop up.

 

Hi ndgal,
Thanks for your perspective. Posting these pictures and getting feedback from his forum has been super helpful. I love that his forum has really knowledgeable people.
What price range would you say a stellar condition A385 be? Secondly, do such pristine condition ones exist (irrespective of whether I could pay the premium for it)?
My attitude going into this has been: 1) a 50-year old watch is likely to not be LNIB so I realize I need to compromise; 2) having a Zenith is better than not having a Zenith; 3) I need to do my research so that if I find something that I'm happy with (in terms of condition and price), that am in a position to act. Realistically, I may not be able to optimize on all fronts (.e.g. waiting for a pristine one to come up for sale, and being willing/able to pay the premium for it).
Thanks in advance!

 

I agree with ndgal, don’t be in a hurry, take your time and wait the rigth piece. If you want a new watch you can go and buy it, if you want a vintage piece you have to search also for long time with patience.
When you find what you are looking for, the satisfaction is that you have a unique piece, every a385 is different from the other a385, the 50 year of life changed them in different way.
I own both a384 and a385, same case, movement, hands, crown but different watches.
In my opinion a385 is more refined, the dial chance a lot with light, with different shades from green to grey.
I advise you to look for One with his original Gay Freres bracelet, it’s special
For the crown of the second watch wristpirate is right, it is with correct logo but too small

 

Yes they do. Ask @kov

https://omegaforums.net/threads/out-of-this-world-a385.71771/

Depends, if you are able to hunt one yourself from an owner or buy from a dealer. Dealer prices will obviously be higher.
There is a very nice one with the original bracelet currently on Chrono24. Asking price is just under 10K.

 

Hi ndgal,

You and Preacher make very good points. And yes, that's an amazing example of a well-preserved A385!

I saw that particular A385 on Chrono24 as well. May I ask everyone this question?

1) Based on ONLY the case (i.e. no bracelet), how would you compare the watch on Chronos24 to the A385 on ebay? They look similar to me.

https://www.chrono24.com/zenith/a385-el-primero-1970s--chronograph--id8498659.htm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zenith-El-...019-fully-serviced-with-box-1969/143051007661Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

2) What would you pay for the original bracelet and end links? If the watch cases are similar, then the price differential is the original GF bracelet.

Pictures below:
Chrono24 watch first:




EBAY watch below:

 

Chrono24 example has the nicer case out of the two IMO

These GF ladder bracelets go for $1,000+ (depending on condition) and good luck finding a pair of ZKM end links... Last pair I saw sell on eBay went for over a grand of memory serves me right...