http://watchguy.co.uk/buy-with-confidence-service/

I guess this sort of deal may also be done by other watchmakers, but it is the first time I see it advertised as a service!

 

Comes down to whether the seller would agree! If the seller isn't a WIS, they might not have heard of him, or be prepared to do this.

 

True, but then again it is a third party inspection opportunity.
I have already used Christian for this kind of service earlier, and it was very comforting not flaunting hard earned money on a basket case.
IMO it should be clear that the buyer should cover the cost in such a case. Then most sellers (me included) should not have any issues with it?
Also a great chance to have the watch serviced if everything else checks out!

 

Not a bad idea.

That would be a red flag for me, but he does make his point well using a No Fly Zone as an example.

 

Personally I would never get involved with this sort of thing for a couple of reasons...

1 - I have a strict policy that I never get in the middle of someone else's transaction. So for example if someone buys a watch, and wants it shipped directly to me, I refuse even if I know am already going to be doing the service. In addition to not wanting to be charged duty/taxes on someone else's purchase, that I then have to charge the buyer back for (in many cases the end cost would be higher than if it was shipped t the buyers home country), with eBay you need to be careful with the protections they offer. Shipping to a 3rd party on an eBay sale may end up with the someone losing rights in a dispute. I want the buyer to get the watch first, confirm that it is what he bought, and then he can send it to me if everything is okay with the purchase.

I certainly don't want to be the one who opens a package for an expensive watch, only to find a brick inside, and then have to be involved in the fallout from that. I would expect the seller/scammer would say I was the one who stole the watch, and I could end up with both buyer and seller not happy with me. Way too much potential for problems with this sort of thing. I'm just another person in the loop that a scammer can blame and defect responsibility to...

2 - Christian is offering to authenticate the watch - this comes with it's own set of problems. To what extent is he authenticating the watch? Is it just that it's a genuine watch from a specific brand, or is he saying that all the parts are good and original such as dial, hands, etc.?

Knowing how detailed guys on this forum are about such things, and knowing the no one is an expert on "everything" he could be setting himself up for legal action if he says something is authentic when it turns out it's not. I am certainly willing to offer my opinion on the originality of something, but charging for that opinion takes it to an entirely different level.

I also make it clear to anyone who asks that I am not an expert on what font on a sub-dial of some obscure model from the 40's should look like. You guys spend hours and hours studying the details of these watches, and even then there are some like Dennis who are very good on some models, but as he himself states, clueless on Speedmasters. I don't have the time to spend all those hours researching this stuff, and those with a true passion for these details are the best judge of what it right and wrong. My expertise is fixing these things, not judging if everything is original or not.

I agree this is a good service for collectors/buyers, but maybe not so much for Christian...hope he doesn't get himself in a jam with this service...

Cheers, Al

 

Hi Al,

I see your point...

In the past, I've done this for various customers, and so far, I haven't had any problems with it. No watch has gone back to the seller yet, as I guess they won't agree in the first place to send it to me.

Also, I've had customers' eBay purchases directly sent to me. If one day a brick in a box arrives, I guess I'll have to see what happens. It would be my word against that of the seller. Legally, I don't have a problem with that, as they buyer would have to take me to court. He will have to prove that I swapped a watch for a brick in my workshop, which is not easy to do. Especially if I have done this in the past without any issues. The buyer's rights against the seller are of course watered down when he takes this route, as you rightly point out. But that is the buyer's decision.

In the end, I don't expect dodgy sellers to agree to this scheme in the first place.

When it comes to authenticity, I clearly state that I don't take the watch apart, I only open the back. So I can only confirm authenticity to what I see. Again, in most cases, this is a straightforward business as you can tell a cheap Chinese movement from the real deal pretty easily. If the set lever is original or not isn't part of what I offer, as I clearly can't get into that sort of detail without taking the watch apart. If I don't know enough about a certain model, I will of course state so, e.g. that I don't know if the dial is original, if that particular movement belongs into the case, etc. No issue there either, as long as I'm straightforward.

I've seen a lot of crappy watches land on my desk from people that have been duped on eBay. I think I can prevent this from happening, as the dodgy seller will never agree in the first place to have the watch shipped to me. Also, no money for the watch itself will change hands during this process, unless all goes well, so worst case, I get stung for postage back to the seller.

A seller could of course claim that I have damaged his watch or changed it for a brick, but I would quite confidently be taken to court to see what happens there.

I'll see what happens, believing that it's a great service for my customers. If I get stung, I'll stop doing it.

Cheers,

Christian

 

No worries mate - it's certainly your decision. I have seen a lot of crap watches from eBay as well, and have had to break the news to people who spent a whack on a watch that's it's not worth even trying to repair - some even on this forum...

As I said it's not a bad thing for the buyer, just puts you in a potentially bad situation.

If I were you I would make sure that a buyer knows that his rights in a dispute may be altered by sending the watch to you though. I would not assume that they know or should know that.

And on the authenticity question - if you read through threads here about the details of watches and what is important to collectors, even those here who I consider to be experts don't always agree.

Certainly it's not hard to tell if the movement is a cheap Chinese copy, and if that is what you are offering that's fine. I would just want to make sure it's clear that that is all you are offering, and nothing more.

I'm talking more about if the hands and dial are original to the watch, or have been recent or even early replacements or redials. Again it should be clear up front that you are not authenticating these things.

Just trying to make sure you don't get burned.

Cheers, Al

 

There's always that pesky downside, eh?

 

Hi Al,

Your thoughts on this are as always much appreciated, and I've added a caveat on the page on my site explaining the service. I certainly won't get into discussions about the originality of hands ;-) As both sides will get a comprehensive set of photos, there is nothing keeping them from posting them here or on another forum to check with the experts what's what.

This is really to keep people from spending a lot of money on watches that are totally bodged together. And we both know that there are lots of those out there. Recently, I had one where a broken balance staff had been glued back onto the balance! Out of centre, of course ;-)

Cheers,

Christian

 

Christian. I can be wrong, but you'll quickly realize to not deal with people from the US because of restrictions, laws, rules, and a tendency to involve lawyers.

It's up to you, just make sure what you're charging is worth the extreme case, or at least think about the worse case, and if you're okay with it then I dont see a problem.

 

Good thing US laws do not apply worldwide (even if many Americans tend to think so)!

 

I take minor exception to that. Not all of us are lawsuit-mongers. As a matter of fact, I'd say that type is a very small minority. Whatever you're basing your facts on needs to be checked.

 

Been dealing with US customers in my professional life. 99.9% nice and honest people with good will and good intents. I am certain that I will count you in there !
The remaining 0.1% is the annoying ones! They are LOUD!!!

 

Your response to my thread on falling in the shower at a hotel does not help this stereotype mate...

 

Hey now, every country has their share of that. We just had a go 'round with a d-bag across the North Sea from you (heading SW).

 

You do know that was a joke, right?

 

You do know that was a joke, right?

 

Touché.

 

I just know that when I worked for the major (US based) cruise lines I was told that about 25% of the price you pay for the ticket is actually calculated to cover lawsuits by this exclusive 0.1% group. In Europe (same companies) they did not need to set a side anywhere close to this.
US legislation seems to offer idiots much more methods of creating hell and havoc compare to the European laws.
As an example we (the companies I worked with) would never enter contracts based on US law. It would always be using UK courts if things went belly-up in a project, and we did not even operate from the UK.