Forums Latest Members
  1. CaptainWinsor Feb 20, 2020

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    3,366
    822B64F0-DBD0-4E52-95F3-738C10A38352.jpeg I saw this posted on IG. It looks fake to me but you never know with the 70s. Opinions
     
    cvalue13 likes this.
  2. redpcar Feb 20, 2020

    Posts
    3,669
    Likes
    7,723
    Pics of the back and inside? Color me skeptical but you never know. :coffee:
     
    Benbradstock and CaptainWinsor like this.
  3. CaptainWinsor Feb 20, 2020

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    3,366
    that was the only pic. Looks ridiculous
     
  4. redpcar Feb 20, 2020

    Posts
    3,669
    Likes
    7,723
    If the hour markers were only a little more orange...

    upload_2020-2-20_20-57-34.png
     
    vujen, RI Omega Fan, DeepBlue and 4 others like this.
  5. moyrules Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    209
    Likes
    679
  6. moyrules Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    209
    Likes
    679
    This is the movement

    5E52767D-876A-47F1-AEB0-E6091F026F8E.jpeg
     
  7. wristpirate Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    1,231
    Likes
    3,723
    They don't belong to A3630. The bezel is quite different.

    Would be interesting to see a caseback photo, whether it even has Zenith stamped on it.
     
  8. DeepBlue Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    This actually is my watch.

    I'm sure it is original. Only there is no info to be found about it because it is so rare.
    I think this dial was not light blue to begin with but has faded. It probably was dark blue or gray if you ask me.

    Zenith actually used a 4 pointed star at one point. I've seen it on Zenith movements and casebacks aswell.

    Here is another one, same case, crown, hands and movement. Different dial but with same 4 pointed star.

    [​IMG]

    and here with another star

    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Feb 21, 2020
  9. DeepBlue Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    Caseback has a ref number stamped in it: 1085151. It is not signed Zenith. Maybe the casing in France, instead of Switzerland has something to do with that?

    The models with black dial i have posted above are also not signed by Zenith on the caseback, but also have a ref number. A different ref number though 1085156

    Here is the topic on a french forum about those
    http://forumamontres.forumactif.com...ge-pas-courante-petite-revue?highlight=zenith
     
    Edited Feb 21, 2020
  10. DeepBlue Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    Zenith used the same dial but then in orange in another model aswell

    [​IMG]

    On my wrist :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Feb 21, 2020
  11. CaptainWinsor Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    3,366
    It’s the roughness of the dial that puts me off. If it’s not marked Zenith it was obviously cased by someone else. That and the case number doesn’t correspond to a Zenith number from that time period. I don’t believe it was cased in Besancon. All their watches were marked Zenith. For $60 you can get an extract from Zenith. That would tell you for sure
     
  12. DeepBlue Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    There are actually more Zenith watches made in Besancon that are not marked Zenith on the caseback. That does not make them not cased by Zenith or without orders from Zenith perse. Maybe they'd let a third party do it. Who knows.

    I bought it from a french antiques dealer, so if these watches were sold in France that could make sense.

    It has the same kind of paint deterioration some tudor snowflakes have. really small bubbles. which actually makes it more plausible to me.

    Scratches in the glass are distorting the minute track here and there. The dial looks really crisp and sharp.

    To me it is too much of a coincidence. There are 3 other watches i know of with exact same case etc. just with different dial.
    And even one of them has a different logo star on the dial than the other 2.
    Zenith has used an orange variation of the dial i have.
    The movement is signed Zenith, the hands are used by Zenith in more of their watches.
    I cannot believe somebody would just put this watch together with all these rare parts and even with a different ref. number on the case than the other dial variation has and made the dial somehow light blue.

    But i understand your scepticism.

    Getting an extract is a good idea! thanks
     
    Edited Feb 21, 2020
  13. wristpirate Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    1,231
    Likes
    3,723
    The 4 pointed star was used as the Zenith logo for a time. The red El Primero boxes had it.

    Off top of my head, don't recall seeing the logo applied onto a dial. Very interesting.
     
    DeepBlue likes this.
  14. CaptainWinsor Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    3,366
    That particular logo was used on dials but not for very long.
     
  15. CaptainWinsor Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    3,366
    the cases are always marked even from Besancon. Zenith didn’t have a 3rd party casing their watches.
     
  16. DeepBlue Feb 21, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    If i google Zenith Besancon, i'm finding more cases not marked.

    All of the above watches i posted are also not marked on the caseback. You think they are incorrect?
    A guy on that french watch forum i posted the link from even says he purchased the watch of the first owner who bought it in the 1960's.
     
    Edited Feb 21, 2020
  17. DeepBlue Feb 22, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    From the topic on watchuseek.

    From the 4 pointed star on the dial, it is immediately clear that this was made in Besançon. This is also confirmed by the Besançon case number on the back (although the OP hasn't posted that).

    I think the manual movements cased in Besançon were all made there, including the cal 2522 and derivatives, as they all have Besançon serial numbers.

    But not the few automatics with cal 133.8 (in the late '50s) or 2542 PC (in the late '60s) which have entirely Swiss signed movements, including Swiss serial numbers.

    It is a bit strange that the case is not signed Zenith, but the case number clearly is a Zenith Besançon number.




    It is in the range of other Besançon case numbers which in the end (c. 1970) reached 1.177.xxx for stainless steel cases (highest Besançon case number I've seen).

    The style of the engraving is also the same.

    I'm not sure if the cases in Besançon were always signed on the inside, certainly not the gold ones.


    This one does look like a special delivery, sort of a compressor case.
     
  18. CaptainWinsor Feb 22, 2020

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    3,366
    I’m not saying it’s fake. There’s just something not quite right. Spend $60 and get an extract. Also, just because someone on WUS says it’s from Besancon doesn’t mean it’s true. I don’t understand how they can say that just based on a case number. It’s not marked Zenith and every watch has a case number. It could be from anywhere
     
  19. DeepBlue Feb 22, 2020

    Posts
    353
    Likes
    524
    I've actually talked to a more than a few of knowlegable collectors who all think the watch is correct and from Besancon. I'm sure it is aswell after researching whatever information there is about it on the internet.

    Same goes here, just because someone on Omega forum says something is not quiet right, doesn't mean it is true.

    But believe what you want, i'm going to enjoy the watch.
     
    Edited Feb 22, 2020
  20. moyrules Feb 22, 2020

    Posts
    209
    Likes
    679
    If I had that watch, I surely ask for an extract: have Zenith confirmation, increase the value of the watch ...

    Anyway, enjoy the watch. That’s why we are here.
     
    Edited Feb 22, 2020
    DeepBlue likes this.