Is it just me, or has this rising tide or Speedy prices led specifically to more transitional 861s coming out of the woodwork? I seem to see a lot more up for sale than before. While 321s are getting scarcer, transitionals seem to be getting more prolific. This is clearly counter-intuitive.

To me though, it makes sense: Previously, transitional 861 owners probably wouldn't have thought that it was worth giving up a nicely patina'd AML 861 for just a couple hundred more than a 1980s 861 (if that), but then they couldn't get near 321 prices, so they'd just sit and happily enjoy their pieces in a very personal way. Now with this rising tide of prices* encouraging increased value for minutiae (especially outwardly visible signs of a vintage piece, which most new collectors are likely to obsessive over rather than movements), suddenly there is a very real gap in landed price between the normal 861s and the transitionals. The spectrum has been stretched by the top tier pieces, possibly leaving enough room for a solid third major category. If I were a long-time transitional 861 owner, this is definitely when I would sell.

What do y'all think? Am I whack? Has the increase in transitional 861s for sale just been proportional to the increase in Speedies in general? Or no increase at all? If there is an increase, could there be a different explanation? Maybe one to do with the evolution of complex dealer economics? (Another interesting issue for a different topic, especially from a geographic perspective -- I'd love to see a map of vintage watch flows from continent to continent over time. I bet you the map would show a huge arrow from older European collectors to younger American and Asian collectors.)

Cheers,
Joe

*- noticeably bumped even more by Speedy Reference Points, thank you Ben, but also

 

What's not to like? Classic 321 look with 861 maintenance/upkeep.. great combo, especially with The Parts Situation. This very point is drawn out in most speedy authoritative sources; the transitional is special - and until recently, very attractively priced.

Oh, and if you're going to post interesting topics, please do get an avatar. Welcome.

Edit: I'll add a little more personal context. I really only got into speedies about a year and a bit ago, but I wanted a transitional right from the start. Late 2014, there were very few around, even into early/mid 2015.. but I agree with your observation, of late, they're everywhere. Quite a few 145.012's too. I guess it's the last hurrah. Once you're past -78, then it's more about the LE's.

Edit2: oh, and..

 

Exactly. This is basically what I'm crying about, under the guise of analysis

 

Nice avatar!

 

That dial. Oh my...

 

Thanks! Was originally gonna wait for my own "last hurrah" 145.012 to come in from George to post as an avatar, but I like this actually! Appreciate the guidance re: getting an avatar

 

Wow, beautiful watch.

 

You mentioned that this is the perfect time for transitional owners to sell.

What do we replace a speedy with? Buck for buck there is really nothing out there in the same price range.

 

I my experience the transitional dials have some of the freshest, most pleasing patina all the models.
Pale yellow, lemony coloured tritium.
No idea why.

 

I agree, I seen one on HQmilton recently on a NATO strap that looks fantastic. Perfect patina at a fraction of what a 321 will run you.

 

One of my friends purchased the last transitional that I've seen for sale on this board... a few months ago and I don't think one has come up since... was it even worse in the past?

In all fairness, I haven't seen many 321s coming up for sale on the board either.. eBay is another story.

Lunaroyster has a grail worthy 105.003 up for sale right now, "accepting offers". I can't imagine what it will go for.

 

We have seen quite a few transitionals come to sale recently, and prices seem to be about $1500 or so more than they were 10-12 months ago. But, I would not say that transitionals are getting particular attention over the rest, all Speedy's have risen in price quite a bit in the last 12-18 months especially. It's crazy to me how many 69 pre-moons I'm now seeing listed at 4.5k+

 

I'll sell my -69 at $4,500! Hell, I'll even do it at $4,450.

I wonder if anyone is actually paying that much for a -69? Particularly if it's not in pristine condition with a DON bezel?

 

although, the proper DNN bezel is also correct for a -69...

 

Yeah, I've been wondering that too. Just mention the word "chocolate" and you should be okay though...

 

I've been thinking about leaving my -68 821 out on the roof for a few months to raise the value...

 

Simply put, when a piece doubles in value overnight (along with the line up of potential buyers, it's normal that many will want to cash in. Like vintage Rolex, Speedmasters are now part of the "watch stock market" where discussion more often orbits around the value rather than the watches themselves. Money talks....always...

 

Connie's, 300, railmaster, etc. Have all gone up. This board seems to be fixated on speedies but prices have risen dramatically across the board. Speedies are just the tool watch "flagship" for omega like the submariner is to rolex.
I remember a year ago you could find a nice pie pan for around $800 all day if you tried, now the pickings are far and few between and for a nice unmolested one they go around $1200-$1500 on eBay.. Nothing like speedies, but that's almost an 50% increase.
I truly am jealous of you guys that got them early on.. I could almost afford a transitional a year ago but couldn't get the money together but now I feel I might have missed my window.
But over all don't you guys feel like they deserve it? Vintage omega has been slept on for so long I'm so glad to see these watches get the attention they deserve! Their every bit as nice as their Rolex counterparts I feel like.

 

Selling your transitional, and replacing it with an 861 from the early 70's is an option that I am considering. I might even have enough left over to add a beater Seamaster 300.

Knowing what those DON bezels are fetching, especially in great condition has relegated my transitional to the sidelines. It is funny because I ended up wearing the transitional as it was so much less expensive, and easier to service than the 321's when I purchased. I liked the older dial and bezel meshed with the more readily serviced movement.

 

IMO the motivation to move a '68 at this moment, is there are several other wonderful vintage chronos to chase. And after all, isn't it always about the hunt?