The future of Tudor, TAG, and others

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Speaking with my WM, who is Omega/Rolex specialist mentioned that he is less worried about the change in Omega parts supplies than if Rolex were to do the same. "If Rolex stops letting me buys parts I'm just gonna sell everything, close up shop, and work for someone else."
 
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Speaking with my WM, who is Omega/Rolex specialist mentioned that he is less worried about the change in Omega parts supplies than if Rolex were to do the same. "If Rolex stops letting me buys parts I'm just gonna sell everything, close up shop, and work for someone else."

Already happening to some Rolex approved individuals. Forced to buy 20-30,000 pounds worth of new tooling just to maintain their existing approval, they have dropped it altogether. All the Swatch makers will do the same, it's coming, it's just a matter of time that's all...

As for ETA parts, they are pricing spares so high as to make many watches uneconomical to fix: 7750 balance wheels at 56 pounds, a movement screw priced at 6 pounds each, 2836-2 balance 42 pounds, complete movement at 225 pounds, rotor at 63 pounds, etc...prices have tripled or more over the past few years, and that's before the supply is cut off. Wait till after 2015 to see what happens. If the supply pool was so deep then why are supply houses asking customers if they have any part for sale? Value of the watch vs cost to fix is going to be a big deciding factor for a lot of folks.
 
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As for ETA parts, they are pricing spares so high as to make many watches uneconomical to fix: 7750 balance wheels at 56 pounds, a movement screw priced at 6 pounds each, 2836-2 balance 42 pounds, complete movement at 225 pounds, rotor at 63 pounds, etc...prices have tripled or more over the past few years, and that's before the supply is cut off. Wait till after 2015 to see what happens. If the supply pool was so deep then why are supply houses asking customers if they have any part for sale? Value of the watch vs cost to fix is going to be a big deciding factor for a lot of folks.

Those prices are really high compared to what I've paid. For example a balance complete for the 2836 costs me $29.50 Canadian, so about 1/3rd of what you are paying. Not sure who is giving you those prices but you should look elsewhere IMO...

I've not seen any supply houses here asking for parts from people.

Desirable watches will be fixed, and those that aren't won't, just like happens now. This is not a special situation really.
 
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I guess so much depends on what you value in a watch movement and what the brand values in a watch movement: accuracy/precision, complications, decoration, reliability or all of the above? I doubt whether there are many mass available non ETA movements that offer all or even want to - I am not including the known in-house movements here. I am thinking that there will be a growing choice as movement makers gather to fill the gap that Swatch is creating. Perhaps a significant period of growth for non ETA movements that can meet the chalenge of maintaining a high build quality? I think those companies prepared to carefully match the needs of their market whether it's with the Sellita, Miyota or SWF, etc., will do ok - taking advantage of the fact that the average non watch enthusiast probably doesn't care what's under the hood as long as its "reliable" and looks good (maybe even digital). So I think plenty of choices will rise to match market demand. I think also that Chinese movements will emulate some of the better swiss movements if not already - The US-based Stolas Watch Company is using, I believe, a SWF (Shanghai Watch Factory) movement "rumoured to be a quality clone of the ETA 2824-2." Anyway an interesting question to raise and I think we will all have a (vested) interest in the long term outcome whatever that may be. Interesting times ahead and as the Chinese say, "may you live in interesting times". 😀
 
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As a member of another watch message board has stated, if the Chinese ever take a serious look at how the quality of their movements compares to that of Swiss movements, and do something about it, the Swiss will be in trouble! Some Swiss companies, maybe, but not Swatch Group.

I wonder if some Swiss non-Swatch Group companies that produce Quartz watches only would be inclined to jump in to fill the void? Swatch is turning their backs on a huge market by cutting of the supply of movements to other companies. It would seem that this should be a golden opportunity for other enterprising Swiss companies.
 
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Eterna, for example, has developed a fully new in-house movement, which is intended to be used not only for Eterna watches, but also as an ebauche, I think.

You have other ebauches manufactures which should gain a place in market, such as soprod.
 
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As a member of another watch message board has stated, if the Chinese ever take a serious look at how the quality of their movements compares to that of Swiss movements, and do something about it, the Swiss will be in trouble! Some Swiss companies, maybe, but not Swatch Group.

I wonder if some Swiss non-Swatch Group companies that produce Quartz watches only would be inclined to jump in to fill the void? Swatch is turning their backs on a huge market by cutting of the supply of movements to other companies. It would seem that this should be a golden opportunity for other enterprising Swiss companies.

That's it, really. If the Swiss don't fill the void the Chinese or Japanese will. Not sure of the long term thinking here by Swatch, is there a little bit of arrogance mixed up in its business model?

Edit: spelling correction.
 
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Well...yes and no. Read this to get a clearer picture of who is actually making what:

http://www.europastar.com/watch-knowledge/1004087450-mechanical-who-will-succeed-eta.html

From the article, Sellita's production as of last year was around 40% still assembling ETA movements they buy from ETA. By 2019 they hope to have all 1.6 million movements per year produced by them, but there is a catch...the bigger issue is balances and balance springs, and mainsprings. They are trying to put in place the ability to make these parts, but recognize that about 90% of Swiss watches rely on Nivarox for parts. COMCO has ordered Nivarox to keep supplying these parts for now. Once it's demonstrated that others are working to fill the void, I suspect they will allow Nivarox to start cutting back supplies of their parts.

The bottom line is that Sellita still relies heavily on parts from Swatch group. They can't even get their production of approx. 1.6 million movements to be fully in house yet, let alone replace the 5-6 million ETA movements that are sold every year (well before the reductions started anyway).

Same situation for Soprod, so although there are makers that are moving in the right direction to fill the supply, they won't be able to produce what Swatch is removing from the market by any means.

There will be plenty of ETA parts floating around for decades to come, so I don't believe the watches will become paperweights any more than any other watch that has discontinued movement parts would be. If the watch is desirable, then it will still get repaired as other desirable watches do now.

Cheers, Al
Great insight. Thank you.
 
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Of course one issue is the nomenclature of SWISS MADE - perhaps the Chinese or Japanese will set up in Switzerland.
 
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Of course one issue is the nomenclature of SWISS MADE - perhaps the Chinese or Japanese will set up in Switzerland.

If consumers only knew how much of their "Swiss" watch is actually made in China - they would be shocked.

Speak to any watchmaker who's job is in the warranty department for these watches and find out how many problems with quality they are experiencing...it's scary...having to replace poor quality parts with the same poor quality parts, new watches falling apart, etc...
 
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In reality more than 99.9% of swatch movement parts are made in SE Asia. They had a factory fire in Switzerland and Swatch group has leveraged it to the max. The fact that movements with expired patents like 2824, 2836, and the 7750 series can be made and used by Sellita, Seagull and other companies, is more than enough to calm panicked buyers.

Seriously take a look at the better Miyota movements or the best stuff from Seiko in their Spring movements. SWATCH will start selling again, or suffer the consequences. So many producers of the non-patent, or patent expired movements to push Swiss assembled movements to records lows.

In reality Swiss movements with 50%+ of Swiss made parts and assembly are a myth. Buy any Swiss-made watch in the duty free zones throughout the world, and open the casebacks to find assembled in Thailand, is reality. The USA and most EU authorized dealers are about the only dealers that enforce the "Swiss made," laws. Switzerland is a seriously expensive place to live. Factory workers pay just isn't enough to have a working salary.

I know the haters will be all over this, but look at recent Swiss legislative or voter legislative bilks that have come to a national vote including a base salary for, just living in Switzerland. That is reality. They can't just rest on their laurels, but what new complications needing new movements are really needed. Most watches sold have no complications other than time and date. Chrono sub-dials are nice but with the 7750 through 7753 post patent era, the best you can expect are nicely decorated rotor assemblies. The move will be towards SE Asian and Japanese movements that have minor in house changes if SWATCH Corp wants to hold the line all the way to bankruptcy court. I don't think their hardline response can last too long without brands not relying on them. That would prove disastrous to the SWATCH Corp over the long haul.
 
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I don't know jack squat about watch repair but I know I can buy a Seagull 28xx or 77xx clone for around 50 bucks and I'm a retail customer. Shows you just what this watch stuff is really worth.

I keep repeating myself like a Shaman Monk but every Swiss watchmaker is straight up jealous of Rolex and wants to copy their business model.

It starts with 100% supply chain control.
 
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I'd buy a sundial before I'd buy one of the clones you mentioned. The huge number of those that come my way for repair (I refuse them) inspires no confidence in them whatsoever!
 
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In reality more than 99.9% of swatch movement parts are made in SE Asia.

78.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
 
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What I'm curious about is thanks to materials technology and 3-D printing, it seems to me making replacement parts could become considerably easier. Of course, the devil is in the materials because it's one thing to get the form right; to make the part out of materials that will wear and respond properly over time is much trickier. I don't know for sure, but I think Rolex tests new materials in things like hairsprings for years before they put them into production. There's no way to know how a new metal will respond after billions of cycles at a set rate. You can try to simulate it, but it's still not the same. Only time, literally, can tell.
 
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I'd buy a sundial before I'd buy one of the clones you mentioned. The huge number of those that come my way for repair (I refuse them) inspires no confidence in them whatsoever!


I'm sure you're 100% correct and I don't think I can be anymore frank about my general lack of knowledge ("I don't know jack squat" - is pretty specific, no?) regarding watch repair.

My point is that if you're desperate for a specific part and Swatch won't sell you one, then you can purchase an entire clone movement for 50 bucks and harvest the single part you desperately need. Desperate being the operative word.

I don't think the world would would stop spinning on its axis if you were forced by Swatch to exercise this watch repair option.

As long as you're honest with your customer then it's probably not a big deal. If my watchmaker presented this exact scenario to me I'd tell him to go for it and I wouldn't give it a moments thought.

I'm speaking as a customer who just wants his broken watch repaired...