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The Bastard Son – Lemania Valjoux 7765 Chronograph for the BBC

  1. Northernman Lemaniac May 29, 2017

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    upload_2017-5-29_15-55-37.png


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    Once in awhile as a collector you come across products that defies logic. At least on first sight.

    A prime example is this chronograph. Lemania badged, but with a Valjoux heart beating inside?!
    A bit like a BMW with a Mercedes Benz engine......

    I would have called it a fake/franken and discarded it immediately if it was not for a couple of markers.

    Firstly, it has been issued to the BBC.
    BBC – The British Broadcasting Corporation – has been known to use Lemania chronographs for decades. BBC issue number 5844 is high compared to most found, and I theorize that it was issued in the mid to late 1980s.

    upload_2017-5-29_15-55-56.png

    More info here: http://atgvintagewatches.com/lemania-watches-forum-uk/3350-bbc-lemania-chronograph-answers.html

    Secondly, it has a very interesting case reference number to it. Lemania, after having left SSIH in 1982 and taken the name Nouvelle Lemania, started using different case references than earlier. Most I have come across have the 11xxx format.
    Now, this one has the reference 12001!

    upload_2017-5-29_15-56-3.png

    As with most things relating to Lemania watches from this period, the details are impossible to confirm, but my best theory is that this watch is a small batch having been delivered to the BBC with one target: Price!

    The chromed case, and Valjoux 7765 movement (basically a hand wound version of the 7750) is tell-tales that “haute horologie” was not the aim. Most likely BBC requested a number of hand-wound chronographs to be delivered by their trusted supplier Lemania, and at this time they would be hard pressed to deliver.
    In the mid to late 1980s Lemania made the 5100 chronograph, and a few derived movements. In addition, they produced a range of very high grade and expensive movements and ebouches destined for entirely different use than that of a public broadcaster. Production equipment for the 187x (Omega 86x) movement had, at this time, been moved to Omega in Bienne. Most likely as part of the deal of selling out Lemania a few years earlier.
    My best guess is that they bought the cheapest, decent quality, HW chronograph movement they could get their hands on, and cased it in order to meet the minimum requirements set forth by the BBC.
    This was in the midst of the so called “quartz crises”, and every contract would count, and they could keep competitors away from a key customer.

    Any other input, information or good theories are warmly welcome.::popcorn:::)

    Whatever way put it is a genuinely rare, albeit bastard, watch!

    If you wonder, don't ask: THIS WATCH IS NOT FOR SALE!

    A big thanks to @Mitka @ WatchGuy UK for a splendid job servicing it!

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    upload_2017-5-29_15-56-54.png upload_2017-5-29_15-57-0.png
    Edited Jun 6, 2017
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  2. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. May 29, 2017

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    Great story @Northernman and great example of why the forums are so fun. You left out one detail. Where did you find it?
     
  3. Northernman Lemaniac May 29, 2017

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    Auction in the U.K.
    ;)
     
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  4. Myron May 29, 2017

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    Very cool! Nice find Anders. Congratulations and thanks for taking the time to document it so thoroughly for the rest of us.

    Myron
     
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  5. bags1971 May 29, 2017

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    never knew bbc gave watches to staff learn something new everyday :)
     
  6. Fritz genuflects before the mighty quartzophobe May 29, 2017

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    which begs the question... why didn't the BBC just buy a quartz unit?
     
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  7. Northernman Lemaniac May 29, 2017

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    They had been purchasing mechanical chronographs since the 1940s.
    I guess they were slow in updating their specification standards.
    :)
     
  8. Fritz genuflects before the mighty quartzophobe May 29, 2017

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    A government organization slow in updating specifications??!

    Oh how could you say such a thing?
     
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  9. Northernman Lemaniac May 29, 2017

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    :D
     
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  10. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. May 29, 2017

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    I could see why one would want a mechanical watch if the assignment was in a country where one could not buy a battery.
     
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  11. Northernman Lemaniac May 29, 2017

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    The Heuer Connection.

    There is an interesting connection with Heuer in this puzzle.
    On Friday, 4 June 1982 Lemania (under the current ownership of the Piaget family) took control over Heuer. This control remained until January 1st 1986 when TAG finalized their purchase of Heuer SA.
    Heuer had been using the 7765 movement for budget chronographs shortly before,and during, this period.
    I believer there is a good chance that this small series of watches for BBC actually came to use 7765 movements from the Heuer stock as it would have been available, and Lemania would not have had to go directly to one of their key rivals and competitors ETA/Valjoux.

    An indicator of this thesis is found if one compares the bezel ring (not the dial itself) between this (Lemania ref 11001) 5100 Heuer Carrera, and my BBC Lemania ref 12001 watch. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I don't really think so.::popcorn::
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    Edited May 29, 2017
  12. ar.parask13 May 29, 2017

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    A really impressive find indeed! Never thought that I would see a lemania with a valjoux movement in it!
     
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  13. Edwinowl May 30, 2017

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    That's a cracking bit of research and I too was astounded BBC buying watches for staff. Whatever next and taxpayers money!!
    Also didn't know that Lemania took over Heuer in 82 before the techniques avant garde (TAG) buy out which I thought was 85 so living and learning. Cheers.
     
  14. aap May 30, 2017

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    Great story Anders! Congratulations on the find. This reminds me of how Martel used other movement makers (i.e. Felsa and Valjoux also) for their own Martel-branded watches!
     
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  15. Northernman Lemaniac May 30, 2017

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    I recommend Jack Heuer's autobiography "The times of my life."
    It sheds a grim light on that very difficult period in time we talk about here.
    Free PDF:
    https://calibre11-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Jack-Heuer-Biography.pdf

    As for BBC buying chronographs I see a good point in that. Timing of productions and events is needed for a broadcaster, and key personnel would need such devices.
    The issue numbering of the chronographs tells me that this was not something they'd throw at you.
     
  16. tapaptpat May 30, 2017

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    Edited May 31, 2017
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  17. tapaptpat May 30, 2017

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    Edited May 31, 2017
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  18. Northernman Lemaniac May 30, 2017

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    Thanks for pointing that out Pat. A very interesting observation indeed!
     
  19. tapaptpat May 30, 2017

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    @Northernman Makes me wonder if the valjoux football Ltd Ed is an 1xxxx case ref, how about the Archos world timer to pick another out of thin air, none of which I have :-(

    @ar.parask13 what case ref on yours. You know the one I really like.
     
    Edited May 31, 2017
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  20. Northernman Lemaniac May 30, 2017

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    The Omega FIFA has ref ST11003-2.
    My Lemania cal 5012 version has 11003. So does also the identical Heuer Cortina.

    Arctos world timer is most likely the same as my Lemania version. I will inform details when it arrives in a couple of weeks time.
     
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