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Straight from the horses mouth: the caliber 321 speedy will be made in SS

JwRosenthal
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
@padders

great I can’t unsee that ever!



also in 321 vs 861


The 321 ran for less then 20 years. The 861 is currently on its 51st year of production. Or we can argue it was in production for 50 years. That’s a heck of a run for any movement.
Was the 321 an original Omega in-house design or was it a modification of an already extant movement from another maker (like Rolex using Zenith movements)? Not crapping on the 321 in any way, just wanting to know the allure over the 861 in my watch other than the whole “movement that went to the moon” thing which I couldn’t care about.
 
Foo2rama
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Was the 321 an original Omega in-house design or was it a modification of an already extant movement from another maker (like Rolex using Zenith movements)? Not crapping on the 321 in any way, just wanting to know the allure over the 861 in my watch other than the whole “movement that went to the moon” thing which I couldn’t care about.

derived from the 27 chro c12 movement. Basically the same and not much older starting in 1942. So about 25 years.


Also... the 861 is still currently used in space, spent more time in vacuum, been on more missions, and went around the moon... just not on it.
 
vicsdca
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So which movement is superior in terms of reliability and accuracy: 321 or 861 ?
 
JwRosenthal
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vicsdca vicsdca
So which movement is superior in terms of reliability and accuracy: 321 or 861 ?
I would think for a daily wearer, the parts availability of the 861 would win for me. Unless the new 321 which of course parts would be available for but the old ones, not so much
 
Foo2rama
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vicsdca vicsdca
So which movement is superior in terms of reliability and accuracy: 321 or 861 ?
Arguably the 861 changes from the 321 where also for reliability and accuracy in addition to lower mfg costs.

the lack of column wheel in theory makes the 861 more reliable. And the lower frequency makes the 861 not as accurate. But I’ve seen the same accuracy numbers from both movements.
 
vicsdca
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Arguably the 861 changes from the 321 where also for reliability and accuracy in addition to lower mfg costs.

the lack of column wheel in theory makes the 861 more reliable. And the lower frequency makes the 861 not as accurate. But I’ve seen the same accuracy numbers from both movements.

Okay, so to recap:

861 - more reliable and less accurate (in theory but not necessarily in practice), cheaper to make
 
Foo2rama
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vicsdca vicsdca
I suppose new and old generation 321 parts would be compatible if it's the exact same movement
Not necessarily... as they didn’t use the old tooling. They re created it using lasers and x ray tech.
 
eugeneandresson
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Not necessarily... as they didn’t use the old tooling. They re created it using lasers and x ray tech.

The CT scanning of the 321 was IMH2cO done to 1) exactly reverse engineer with extreme precision into a digital format all dimensions of mechanical parts (2/3xx number of parts, can’t remember, of which they have the full suite of original design drawings for each part, undoubtedly on some form of scan from paper drawing etc, for the whole movement 2) use as a marketing tool to make mountains out of hills. This is exactly how I would reverse engineer something mechanical like this, so kudos given where kudos due.

According to Omega the new 321 parts will fit the old movements (they didn’t change any parts, and in anyhow by principle of the method used, makes sense they will fit (to me at least)) ... there is just the question of finishing (old is copper plated, new is not copper plated, so a new part will look different in an old movement), and availability (i.e. will any Certified watchmaker with a parts account get access to buy these parts...I was told ‘yes’ when I had the opportunity to ask, but it remains to be seen, and I was also told that A11 bracelets would not be sold publicly, but clearly they are).
Edited:
 
Slim Pickens
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Screwbacks Screwbacks
Is there any news as to the take up of the platinum 321s, whether or not it is fully sold or reserved?

Anent status of this platinum321s, then the future steel version could be something to await for. 😉::psy::
From what I have heard on sites like HODINKEE, the Platinum 321’s are spoken for. Maybe if you get lucky calling around to AD’s or have a really good relationship with yours you can snag one.
 
Slim Pickens
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Was the 321 an original Omega in-house design or was it a modification of an already extant movement from another maker (like Rolex using Zenith movements)? Not crapping on the 321 in any way, just wanting to know the allure over the 861 in my watch other than the whole “movement that went to the moon” thing which I couldn’t care about.
I believe It was a Lemania based movement—Lemania caliber 2310 I think. Hence the exquisite finishing and detailing similar to Vacheron & Breguet which used this same Lemania base in their high end movements.
 
padders
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YY77 YY77
Looks like the new 321 also gets the 1 too many hash marks;
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-cal-321-stainless-steel.107326/#post-1406752
Yes but 4 marks works with the 321, it always did. The problem was when they 'upgraded' the movement to 6Hz they kept the 5Hz dial. They could have changed it in '69 but I guess they thought the change would be too drastic to the look and detract from the link with the NASA watches which were 321 based. They may have thought that ironically fewer ticks between seconds would look like there was less precision, when in fact there was more.
 
padders
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Dang it I always invert that. Then why does the 861 dials have 1 too many hash marks and the 321 is correct.
Its the same dial on both, its the frequency that changed. Think about it Foo, a 5Hz movement (321) hits one of 4 small marks every tick then hits the second on the 5th tick, a 6Hz movement (861/1861) needs either 5 smalls (would look too busy?) or the way Omega have done it on the Snoopy and ST2, 2 smalls in between and hits the marks or full second every second tick. A 8Hz movement needs 3 marks in between the seconds and again hits the mark every 2 ticks.
Edited:
 
JwRosenthal
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Slim Pickens Slim Pickens
I believe It was a Lemania based movement—Lemania caliber 2310 I think. Hence the exquisite finishing and detailing similar to Vacheron & Breguet which used this same Lemania base in their high end movements.
I thought I remembered reading that but couldn’t remember it was Lemania.
 
rob#1
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Was just reading my Xmas present (A moon watch story; G.R.A.M.) - here’s the section on the Lemania/27 CHRO C12:

5501D1D6-8ABA-42FE-AE37-9AFF01A2AC0D.jpeg
 
Slim Pickens
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rob#1 rob#1
Was just reading my Xmas present (A moon watch story; G.R.A.M.) - here’s the section on the Lemania/27 CHRO C12:

5501D1D6-8ABA-42FE-AE37-9AFF01A2AC0D.jpeg
[/QUOT
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens
Hi everyone,

I don’t post much on here but like some of You once the 321 caliber was announced I became giddy. My wife will say I don’t need any more watches but we all know this is a sickness .
anyway I’ve been scouring the Internet for any info on the 321 being produced in SS as the already announced Platinum is expensive and in limited quantities. Well for those that know Teddy On YouTube, he did a recent interview with the CEO of Omega at the Bond Seamaster 2020 watch reveal and He confirmed they’re working on a SS version (NOT limited production ) 321!

Link to Interview:

So hopefully we have some more official news closer to Baselworld or SIHH this year.


looks like it’s official and sold out LOL: https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/...-moonwatch-chronograph-39-7-mm-31130403001001
 
BayareaTrax
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Why would a full production model 321 be so much more expensive? Is it a much more intricate movement?
 
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