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Speedy 38 runs both fast *and* slow - minute & seconds lose synch

NomDeLaNom
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I've had my Speedy 38 since November 2020. It gets regular but light use, in that I wear it to the office and use it for general daily wear, but not for manual labor or exercise. On the timegrapher, it reads as running +1 or +2, and in real world conditions, the small seconds hand confirms this. I think that's excellent, particularly given that it's not a METAS certified movement.

My issue is that the minute hand lags behind, sometimes losing more than a minute. I can hack the watch and synch the minute hand and the seconds hand, but eventually, the minute hand falls behind. The minute and seconds hands seem to have no relation to each other. I've never had a watch where the minute hand and seconds hands aren't in synch.

Is this a "quirk" of the caliber 3330 movement? Or is something wrong with mine? For those of you who have this movement in your Speedmaster Racing or 38, what is your experience?

Thanks in advance.
 
Donn Chambers
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NomDeLaNom NomDeLaNom
I've had my Speedy 38 since November 2020. It gets regular but light use, in that I wear it to the office and use it for general daily wear, but not for manual labor or exercise. On the timegrapher, it reads as running +1 or +2, and in real world conditions, the small seconds hand confirms this. I think that's excellent, particularly given that it's not a METAS certified movement.

My issue is that the minute hand lags behind, sometimes losing more than a minute. I can hack the watch and synch the minute hand and the seconds hand, but eventually, the minute hand falls behind. The minute and seconds hands seem to have no relation to each other. I've never had a watch where the minute hand and seconds hands aren't in synch.

Is this a "quirk" of the caliber 3330 movement? Or is something wrong with mine? For those of you who have this movement in your Speedmaster Racing or 38, what is your experience?

Thanks in advance.

So I’m just making sure you understand how a chronograph works, because based on your statement, you seem confused about the difference between the small seconds hand and the central seconds hand. The small seconds hand, central minute, and hour hand are synched. It sounds like this is working fine on your watch. The central seconds hand is operated by a pusher and is NOT synched to the central minute hand. It is synched with the minute and hour COUNTER hands.

so, it sounds like your watch is synched fine with the small seconds. But sounds like like to use the central second hand as well, and you have started that when the minute hand was aligned with some index (say straight up), but some time later they are no longer in synch. Is that correct? Any chance you hit the stop/start button so caused it to stop? I’m also not sure that there isn’t some slack there where they won’t stay in synch anyway. Really, they aren’t designed to be in synch, but the chrono runs independently.
 
Archer
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When you set the time, move the minute hand past the minute you want to set it to by say 5 minutes, then turn the hand backwards to the exact minute you need. Then when your time source hits on that minute, press the crown in.

This will take up the backlash that causes the minute hand to fall behind...
 
Dan S
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If the minute hand starts out in sync with the sweep hand and then later you find it to be out of sync, the cannon pinion may need tightening.
 
Archer
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Dan S Dan S
If the minute hand starts out in sync with the sweep hand and then later you find it to be out of sync, the cannon pinion may need tightening.

The cannon pinion on this movement can’t be tightened, it would have to be replaced. Having said that, I don’t think I’ve ever had to replace one on any 7750 based watch, so it would be a rare problem.
 
Dan S
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Archer Archer
The cannon pinion on this movement can’t be tightened, it would have to be replaced. Having said that, I don’t think I’ve ever had to replace one on any 7750 based watch, so it would be a rare problem.
Thanks, Al, I didn't realize this issue wasn't relevant to to this movement.

OP, it might be helpful to describe the behavior more precisely. Does the minute hand fall behind initially and then track afterwards, keeping the same offset? Does it gradually fall farther and farther behind? Does it stop intermittently while the sweep hand continues?
 
NomDeLaNom
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Donn Chambers Donn Chambers
So I’m just making sure you understand how a chronograph works, because based on your statement, you seem confused about the difference between the small seconds hand and the central seconds hand. The small seconds hand, central minute, and hour hand are synched. It sounds like this is working fine on your watch. The central seconds hand is operated by a pusher and is NOT synched to the central minute hand. It is synched with the minute and hour COUNTER hands.

so, it sounds like your watch is synched fine with the small seconds. But sounds like like to use the central second hand as well, and you have started that when the minute hand was aligned with some index (say straight up), but some time later they are no longer in synch. Is that correct? Any chance you hit the stop/start button so caused it to stop? I’m also not sure that there isn’t some slack there where they won’t stay in synch anyway. Really, they aren’t designed to be in synch, but the chrono runs independently.

I am familiar with how my chronograph works, and I am not talking about the large seconds hand that is operated by the pushers.

I am talking about the small seconds sub dial. Trust that I know how to operate my watch. Please don’t dismiss what I’m saying as user error.

If I hack the watch at 12:00:00, within 36 hours, the small seconds sub dial hand will show about 2.5 seconds ahead, but the minute hand will show about 20-30 seconds behind.
 
NomDeLaNom
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Dan S Dan S
Thanks, Al, I didn't realize this issue wasn't relevant to to this movement.

OP, it might be helpful to describe the behavior more precisely. Does the minute hand fall behind initially and then track afterwards, keeping the same offset? Does it gradually fall farther and farther behind? Does it stop intermittently while the sweep hand continues?
Good thoughts. I’ll pay attention, record and report my findings. Thank you.
 
Donn Chambers
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NomDeLaNom NomDeLaNom
I am familiar with how my chronograph works, and I am not talking about the large seconds hand that is operated by the pushers.

I am talking about the small seconds sub dial. Trust that I know how to operate my watch. Please don’t dismiss what I’m saying as user error.

If I hack the watch at 12:00:00, within 36 hours, the small seconds sub dial hand will show about 2.5 seconds ahead, but the minute hand will show about 20-30 seconds behind.

I apologize. I just found your original description confusing and was trying to understand how it could give could time compared to the running seconds hand, but the minute hand still be off. I see now that I missed the statement where you said it kept “good time” based on a time grapher.
 
Archer
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Dan S Dan S
Thanks, Al, I didn't realize this issue wasn't relevant to to this movement.

This movement has an offset cannon pinion that slips during hand setting. This is the driver cannon pinion. It is not at all the typical cannon pinion design, and as I mentioned can’t be tightened, and rarely fails or gets loose.

There is a second cannon pinion that is in the center of the movement, called the free cannon pinion. This one just spins freely, as the name suggests. This is what the minute hand is actually pressed onto...



Driver cannon pinion at the left arrow, and the free cannon pinion is under the hour wheel in the center of the movement.

The minute hand falling behind is a common complaint on 7750 based watches, and 99.9% of the time it's the way the hands were set.
 
NomDeLaNom
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Donn Chambers Donn Chambers
I apologize. I just found your original description confusing and was trying to understand how it could give could time compared to the running seconds hand, but the minute hand still be off. I see now that I missed the statement where you said it kept “good time” based on a time grapher.
Thanks. It is a confusing problem to describe, which is why I did a poor job of it.
 
NomDeLaNom
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Archer Archer
This movement has an offset cannon pinion that slips during hand setting. This is the driver cannon pinion. It is not at all the typical cannon pinion design, and as I mentioned can’t be tightened, and rarely fails or gets loose.

There is a second cannon pinion that is in the center of the movement, called the free cannon pinion. This one just spins freely, as the name suggests. This is what the minute hand is actually pressed onto...



Driver cannon pinion at the left arrow, and the free cannon pinion is under the hour wheel in the center of the movement.

The minute hand falling behind is a common complaint on 7750 based watches, and 99.9% of the time it's the way the hands were set.
It’s starting to sound like a trip to Swatch Group service is in my watch’s future.
Here’s a snap of the watch today, taken at 09:00:58. Seconds are about +2 ahead of NIST. Minute hand catches up about 15 seconds later (looks more like 30 in the snap). I set both to NIST about 24 hours ago.
 
IMG_2886.jpeg
Archer
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NomDeLaNom NomDeLaNom
It’s starting to sound like a trip to Swatch Group service is in my watch’s future.
Here’s a snap of the watch today, taken at 09:00:58. Seconds are about +2 ahead of NIST. Minute hand catches up about 15 seconds later (looks more like 30 in the snap). I set both to NIST about 24 hours ago.

Did you set the watch as I have described in my first post above?
 
NomDeLaNom
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Archer Archer
Did you set the watch as I have described in my first post above?
I did just a few minutes ago. I wanted to capture the watch misbehaving before taking potentially corrective action. It's too soon to tell if it's made a difference. I'll check back tomorrow AM. Thanks.
 
NomDeLaNom
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Archer Archer
When you set the time, move the minute hand past the minute you want to set it to by say 5 minutes, then turn the hand backwards to the exact minute you need. Then when your time source hits on that minute, press the crown in.

This will take up the backlash that causes the minute hand to fall behind...

That seems to have done the trick!
 
IMG_2905.jpeg
Archer
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NomDeLaNom NomDeLaNom
That seems to have done the trick!

Glad this has solved it. Think of it as a feature, not a bug...
 
NomDeLaNom
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Archer Archer
Glad this has solved it. Think of it as a feature, not a bug...

Agreed. It’s an easy enough workaround. I’ll chalk it up to another of this movement’s quirks.

Many thanks!
 
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