Hi,
I am currently searching a speedy ref 105.012 and saw one with inconsistent serial regarded to the year. Is serial 2401xxx too early for a 105.012-66? The case back is HF 105.012 - 66, and dial has closed space T SWISS MADE T. Based on a couple reference on serial number, 2401xxx should probably fall between 64-65?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

The serial number indeed sounds like 65. (Not a 64 - does not fall into that range).
The 2401xxx should be within the year 65.
From 24.533xxx - 25.488xxx then it would fall into 66.

So I would 'expect' to see a 105.012 - 65 case back.

You have any pics that you can send over. Send over lots if you can.

 

That's what I would expect as well, here is the picture of the case back. And I am waiting for him to send me pic of the movement.

 

What's the next digit of your no?

MWO says same as Joe so looks like 65 movement
Whats the next digit of your serial no?

 

Pushers do not look correct....any history from the seller re service and replacement parts?

 

The picture I received is not very clear but looks like 24014xx .

 

Got a better picture.

 

I have a 65 with 24011XXX so not far from yours.

 

@OmegaCal66 and @Joe Apa - there are several B&P'd 105.012-65's made at the end of -65 run that have serials that fall outside the 2282 5xxx – 2452 7xxx quoted on speedmaster101 or MWO as mentioned above. I have and have seen other -65's with up to the -2453 5xxx range personally and all these have wide spaced T's like on the -66 versions.

All this to say that I think there was a transition, like at the edges of most all serial ranges, where some marked -65 had more of the accepted -66 T's and serials and I would assume that the same would be true the other way round: that some early -66's had close spaced T's and slightly 'early' serials. I think this transition is in the 2452 5xxx - 2453 5xxx range and would be happy to know others with these watches. There's some dogmatism in saying that x to y is exactly and the only range known but it's a good start, I just think an otherwise complete example shouldn't be miscounted for something like this. The best evidence for this transition point is that the expert guides all disagree about what the exact serial ranges are and that those authors change their ranges as they see more watches that do not match their stated range. Hopefully this -65 / -66 distinction will be clarified.

Also, I think some who have these examples (for this serial range or others) are afraid of showing their watches because of fear that their watch will not hold value or that they will lose face when they disagree with the collective. As we are all here to learn and enjoy these little mechanical wonders, I hope they will come forward and have all of us enjoy their timepieces.

However, the OP's watch is one with a 2401 4xxx, which, as @OmegaCal66 astutely says, isn't really close to that transition point. This looks eerily like the analog/shift 105.012 that Atom Moore just posted on instagram - @T<25 - is that this watch? At least this example doesn't have a -66 CB caseback with an HF case (as this example doesn't have CB lugs). But who knows, maybe my 'transition range' that overlapped -65 and -66's is too narrow itself!

I think I just wrote way too much about this small point. Pardon, I had a lot of coffee today.

Andrew

 

Joe, Cal66 and ahantel Thank you so much for your input. Your comments are very helpful for me. A chrono guy also informed me that there is a 105.003-1965 with serial number of 24014031. That is only 21 away from the speedy I am searching on.. Very interesting.

 

Serial number are indeed murky waters but the 105.003s seem to have a wider range than the 105.012s so hard to compare. I am no expert so just tend to stick to MWO and 101. As I was wisely advised if you are going to be a speedy collector get Moonwatch only as best money you could spend and will pay back over and over.

 

My Speedmaster 105.012-65 has a serial 24004XXX, if it still can help

 

I am leaning to pass that speedy after all your very helpful input.

 

I am pretty blind, but any chance that could be 246xxxx rather than 240xxxxx?

 

my 105.012-65 with serial 24.530.... was produced December 5, 1966 acc. the extract of the archive

 

FYI - in talking to @speedy4ever , the MWO book serial range was updated as per their corrections page on the MWO website (link below). Their upper rage of the 105.012-65 was listed in the book as 24.527.xxx but they have found more examples and the now accepted range from their site is 24.537.xxx (and these usually have wide spaced T's). As I mentioned above, it's great to know that he and the MWO crew are open and forthright about new information they've learned and I hope they keep up their wonderful work.

http://www.moonwatchonly.com/Moonwatch_Only/Updates.html

 

if they're taking requests, I'd love to see the movement numbers for 2998-6, -61, -62 broken out separately...

thanks for the info about the update.

 

mine is really weird too. it has a 20xxxxx. The thing is i can't see someone thinking 'hm, movement is shitty, gonna swap it with a 1960 one, good idea"

 

Ok what do they say the range of numbers for the 66, is it still 105.012-66 2453 3xxx – 2544 8xxx or are they dropping the 5th digit like @Spacefruit on 101 so as to avoid these transition zones? Otherwise my 66 2453 7xxx , is now in the 65 zone I am a newbie and don't know all the previous discussions regarding serial number progressions so apologies for churning over old ground. Is the OF expert view to go with whatever ever the extract says?