Forums Latest Members

Speedmaster Pro-1861 or 1863? Does it Matter?

  1. Prange Apr 10, 2015

    Posts
    68
    Likes
    47
    Now that you guys have made me want a Speedmaster Pro, does it really matter if it's an 1861 or 1863?

    All I could come up with was the biggest difference is a delrin part in the 1861.

    I will get one,I just don't know which.

    Thanks.
     
  2. yinzerniner Apr 10, 2015

    Posts
    1,859
    Likes
    1,383
    1863's come in the display back cased Speedy Pros (3592, 3572, 3573, etc.) so they have the metal instead of delrin (to look better) and also have Geneva Stripes for extra ornamentation. The 1861 is probably a bit better movement due the to delrin being a better material as a brake part.
     
    Panych likes this.
  3. proximal Apr 10, 2015

    Posts
    266
    Likes
    386
    I would buy based on whether you want the display caseback or not, rather than by whether its 1861 or 1863. The difference in delrin/metal for the brake is negligible.
     
  4. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    21,371
    Likes
    48,321
    I would be interested to know how you came to that conclusion...

    Cheers, Al
     
    Frunkinator likes this.
  5. Frunkinator Keep tickin & tockin, work it all around the clock Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,023
    Likes
    741
    Al you're the man when it comes to servicing, which of the two are better (last longer)?
     
  6. yinzerniner Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,859
    Likes
    1,383
    Don't take my word for it; it's actually what an omega legend said;
    http://chronomaddox.com/omega/articles/delrin.html
    Although I'm hoping he's an actual ex omega employee and didn't just stay in a holiday inn express the night before being contacted.
     
    Watchmutt likes this.
  7. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    21,371
    Likes
    48,321
    Who are you referring to? If it's Chuck Maddox, it would be news to me that he was an Omega employee...

    If you are referring to this quote:

    " For your information, the " nylon " part , is not made of such but is a very special synthetic material, allowing to preserve the edges of the tooth of a very fine wheel, when returning the chronograph hand to the point " zero " , i.e. this part is having the function of a " brake " ! Several years ago, this part was made of steel, though showing little danger of wear-out but still, we wanted to improve to the best possible quality the performance of our " Moon watch " movement and this is why, the steel part was exchanged for a new " synthetic " material " !
    Therefore, all movements of caliber 861 or the newer caliber 1861 ( rhodium plated ) are having this " brake " part in synthetic material, while the " de luxe " movement of caliber 1863 ( for the sapphire case back watches ) is having this "brake " again in steel ( since 1980 ) to preserve the " optical aspect "
    best regards John R. Diethelm. "


    Well let's just say the logic there is a tad flawed. The only time the brake is in contact with the chronograph runner is when the chronograph has been stopped after it has been started. The brake keeps the hand in place so it doesn't flop around so you can read the elapsed time. He says this Delrin brake is used to preserve the fine teeth on the chronograph runner when the chronograph is rest to zero. The problem is, the brake lifts off the runner immediately when the reset button is pushed and is clear of those teeth when the runner is contacted by the hammer, and the chronograph is reset.

    I service a lot of 321, 861, 1861, 1863, and 1866 movements and it's rare that either the Delrin or steel brake needs replacing, and the same goes for the chronograph runner. If the Delrin brake needs replacing, it's usually because of some sort of damage done by a previous watchmaker. And the Chronograph runner I really never see teeth damaged by the steel brake.

    In my view it's a simple cost cutting decision, which is why they change it back to steel for the looks on those watches with a display case back. Oh, and I've bought Delrin over the years by the truckload for conveyor wear strips and other such application in my former life as a project engineer - outside of the mysterious watch world, it's really nothing all that special.

    Cheers, Al
     
    Manny1979 and Clint061 like this.
  8. yinzerniner Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,859
    Likes
    1,383
    Once again Al, thanks for the detailed explanation and rebuttal. I guess you can't trust everything that comes from an omega employees mouth (or fingers, as in this case)
     
    Tom1974 likes this.
  9. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    21,371
    Likes
    48,321
    Did you really expect them to say "We use this because it's cheaper."?
     
  10. Prange Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    68
    Likes
    47
    Thanks again for sharing your expertise and knowledge.

    I'll get the one that I get the best deal on.
     
    VetPsychWars likes this.
  11. yinzerniner Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,859
    Likes
    1,383
    Well, I did expect them to proffer an excuse that isn't easily debunked by someone who understands the particulars of the movement operation. But the timing lines up; early 90's were a tough time for luxury watch brands, so even saving pennies per piece was probably a prudent economical decision.
     
  12. PatrickJ Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,567
    Likes
    858
    Out of interest which model would hold its resale value more?
     
  13. Frunkinator Keep tickin & tockin, work it all around the clock Apr 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,023
    Likes
    741
    Hesalite hands down... Which is odd when you think about how great the sapphire is as a modern touch in watchmaking. But most people who buy the Speedmaster aren't only doing it for looks but rather the NASA history behind it, therefore hesalite ends up being more sought after.