Hi Guys - still relatively new to this.. so looking for best advice and opinions.

I was looking for an original Mark II Speedmaster and got a lot of useful info from a previous thread.

After trawling Chrono24, eBay and the likes I found one for sale by a seller of watches and antiques at what seemed to be in a realistic price range and local enough for me for to go and have a look...
After checking that it was running and that it did look to be the right piece I managed to do a deal for it at a price which I thought was good enough as it looked to be an original exotic dial.

It is running but needs a service as is losing time.. but I was planning an overhaul and service and so managed to haggle that off the watch in any case..

It's watch only so no box or papers - but does seem to be an original exotic racing dial (because of the Tritium Markers)

what do you think?








So the questions are:
am I able to date it without taking the back off/checking movement etc?
Is there any other way?

Is the bracelet and original one.. it's NOT the 1162/173
does this date it as a later watch or not linked?

As said I was planning on servicing and possibly overhauling it. I'
m in the UK and have already contacted STS - are they my best bet or should it go to Omega directly or elsewhere?

I wanted to overhaul the watch... although the dial is original so now thinking that any overhaul should leave the original dial?
Thoughts?
The main hands are corroded and could do with replacing.. likewise the chorine hands.
The glass has a few scratched but is pretty clean
The case is either polished or become shiny through use over the years.

Is there anything that should worry me?

 

Hi

So , a few questions & hopefully some answers/comments for you in bold:

am I able to date it without taking the back off/checking movement etc?
Is there any other way?

NO, get the movement number from the 861 movement

Is the bracelet and original one.. it's NOT the 1162/173
does this date it as a later watch or not linked?

Period correct....possibly supplied as new...more importantly how much 'stretch' is there ?

As said I was planning on servicing and possibly overhauling it. I'
m in the UK and have already contacted STS - are they my best bet or should it go to Omega directly or elsewhere?

STS are Omega's Official appointed vintage specialist....so not cheap , however IMHO simply the best place for your 861 movement plus benefit of a 2yr Warranty.

I wanted to overhaul the watch... although the dial is original so now thinking that any overhaul should leave the original dial?
Thoughts?

Leave the dial & handset alone....

The main hands are corroded and could do with replacing.. likewise the chorine hands.

See above

The glass has a few scratched but is pretty clean

Will be replaced along with the Tachy on Service by STS

The case is either polished or become shiny through use over the years.

Unfortunately probably your biggest issue....it's been heavily polished....STS now have the correct lapping machine to refinish these , so another reason to consider my recommendation !

Best - Neil

 

Just to add to what @flame has said, at least the case has some definition left on the facets at where the top surface meets the sides. STS will charge about £100 + VAT to re-finish the case to the correct effect.

 

Thanks guys and yes I know STS are not cheap but I have budgeted for this already and have spoken to them to understand all their costs watch will be going to them next week just wanted to check there was no one better to consider.

Bracelet has quite a bit of stretch and doesn't really fit (bit too tight) so I will be replacing with a new one from STS

Re the advice to leave the dial and handsets.
Will STS be able to do anything it's the 2 main hands? Or am I best to stick with the corrosion and patina..
Or can STS clean these?

Any idea at a guess how old it is? Not sure when they stop using the T SWISS MADE T dials (Tritium)

Thanks

 

The watch will be early 70's. They stopped using tritium in the 1990s.

Make sure you specify exactly what you want done, otherwise they will have to replace the hands. This may mean foregoing the warranty, but the work will be of the same quality so that should not matter.

 

You def wouldn't be tempted to have the hands replaced but get the originals back..?
My main issue is with the hour and minute hands

(Please be patient with my naive comments - it's because I'm not normally a big vintage collector)

 

Must say reason why I'm curious over date is because I'm told it's a 69 but think that could be confusion over the launch year.. And also be cause 72 is my birth year

 

New hands would look incongruous with the patina of the dial and would glow in the dark. IMO your best bet would be to look out for an original set from someone who has had them replaced and then get an independent watchmaker to swap them over them for you.

The only way to tell for sure when the watch was made would be to buy an "Extract of the Archives" from Omega. This will tell you when it was delivered to the dealer. The serial number of the movement will only indicate when the movement was made and that could have been sitting around for a couple of years before it was put in a case and sold.

 

thanks stuart, my initial plan - before finding the watch i bought was to send it to STS
and fit ALL parts - dial hands glass tachy pushers etc... (to convert it to an as new racing dial model) and to keep all the parts should i ever want/need to return it to original... though that is unlikely.

but part of that mindset was that I thought I was more likely to find a really ropey beat up black dial model rather than an original exotic dial.

As you can see I'm now undecided as to the best course of action for this watch.. i fully understand that new hands on an old face and will look out of place and possibly worse that these corroded ones... and hence the advice by all to just have it serviced and the case brought back to the way to should but to leave all else original. Sorry for the ramblings!

 

Hi

IMHO....

Source a suitable aged used replacement handset & ask (very nicely) for STS to fit them as part of the Service.

Best - Neil

 

thanks Neil - where is the best place to source a used set of hands from a MKII because it's not the most common/popular model.

 

Good to see you got one-I agree, that case is so polished it shines! I think it is an honest example of a vintage Mk II. Personally, I wouldn't change the hands, but I agree with Stewart, best to look for "pre-loved" hands to preserve the uniform vintage looks. In terms of serial #s and sell dates, my watch was sold by the AD in 1976, but the serial number dates it to 1970 (32M), based on the papers I got as part of the sale.

 

Service, case touch up. Thats all i would do.....



Buy one of these if your after new new

 

thanks guys... I think i need to get it serviced and the case brought back up to scratch as soon as possible - so it'll go to STS shortly for the movement service and case refinish.. because i just don't have the patience to wait for a set of hands to turn up..
I will then keep my eyes open for a hand set or a very cheap donor watch (although even the banged up non runners seem to go for top money on ebay!) and then i'll get either STS or a watch maker swap these..

Opinions from the photos above as to whether or not the Tachy hand has been replaced at some time in the past or look original... just that the orange seems much brighter and not as faded as the dial or the hands on the sub dials.

Just wonder whether if it is newer than the rest of the watch if this already makes it stand out against the rest of the dial.. and whether or not I should replace the main hands but leave the sub dial hands and the dial intact..
and then have the original hands back so that if I don't like the look a watchmaker can swap them back afterwards - a new hand set form STS is only £60/£70 plus VAT from STS

Sorry if this goes against the grain of vintage...

 

Hey there d4uk,

I'm still very much new here, but I will throw in some comments here... the watch you have can be restored fully, partially or not at all. In any case, in will never have the cache that a fully original and mint condition watch will have. Despite that, it can be a very nice watch, even desirable to some.

Since it will probably never end up in a purely vintage collector's collection, it is mainly up to you what you want from the watch. It sounds like you want to restore it to 'like new' condition and there's nothing wrong with that. You will have a very fine watch with some vintage under the hood. You may even be able to sell the dial and hands to someone who is going for a vintage restoration to help offset the cost of the work this watch will need if you decide to go that way.

A couple items to consider (in CAD$$):

New dial, $200
New hands, $75
New bracelet, $350
Service, $750

I recently went through the very same deliberation over the very same watch. The mk ii i picked up was some sort of cross breed. The hands were all white making me think it was originally a black dial version with a racing dial put on. The case had some faint traces of the sunburst finish, the bracelet was after market. I finally decided to do a full restoration and I'm just waiting for the watch to come back to me within a week or two. (I should end up with a pair of hands that are still vintage but may be in slightly better shape than the ones you have should you want them.)

Anyway, good luck with your journey! It can be difficult to decide, but listen to your intuition. There are preferences and opinions on what you should do, but in the end, it's up to you.

Cheers,

J

 

Thanks for the comments Joel
Yes similar dilemma - I think it's because I assumed for my budget I'd end up with a black dial and would have no option but to replace everything (dial, hands etc..)

But since I managed to find what I at least think is a pretty decent 1969/70 (assuming that's about right for a 28mil serial ) racing dial I have had to consider the other options..

And the decision is made.

Watch was dropped off at STS this morning and is having the following:

Full case refinish including the starburst (although it prob won't look as good a some as it's been pretty heavily polished and worn over the years and so some edges may not be as sharp as they once would have been.

Full movement service including new glass and tachy ring
Pushers and crown mainly to ensure the waterproofness

Dial left intact
Sub dial hands left intact
Hour and minute hand cleaned but not replaced
Sweeping seconds hand (which looks like it's been replaced or painted in the past)
Recoloured to match the dial and orange sub dial hands

I haven't ordered the new bracelet yet because I'm undecided whether or not to put it on a strap or bracelet and I'm not too sure the service replacement 1162/173 is worth the money (at least the figure I was quoted earlier.. So my dealer is checking the best price he can get it for.)

Part of me still also wants a completely fresh mkII like yours Joel - I just don't think the watch I found would have been best served having that treatment..

But I guess time will tell when I get it back either just before or after Christmas

 

well the watch arrived back this morning more quickly than expected and i must say pretty happy how well it looks now compared to when i to went away..

the case refinish is loads better than I hope especially given how polished it had been,
also the sweeping seconds hand now does look more in keeping with the orange sub hands.
I'm just waiting for a new bracelet which is due into my AD next week.

what do you think?

 

Looks great! Mine should be back Tuesday.

 

Looks good to me.

 

Hi D4uk, the words "pretty happy" send shivers down my spine - as normally I associate this phrase with dissappointment (its the pessimist in me, i,m afraid!)

If you are not entirely happy, i think you still have two choices

1) flip it and wait for a NOS example - please note, these are in short supply. In the early 70s, in the UK we had oil crisis, 3 day weeks, strikes, electricity cuts etc - so no one could afford to buy one of these and keep it in a safe! If you want a good night it, please google "Dogens vintage omega collection) and prepare to drool copiously. Even if you are a multi millionaire, i doubt if anyone could replicate this cpllection within 5 years or so.

2) is easier - buy a modern version, in the boutiques right now - its fantastic

Cheers, paul