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Speedmaster hands: what is my watchmaker doing wrong?

  1. M'Bob May 13, 2020

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    A local guy I've used for years finally confirmed what I've suspected: that often, after fitting Speedmaster hands for the first time, they come back with micro-cracks in the luminous.

    When I asked him about this, he said that often, when fitting vintage hands for the first time that have a lot of luminous, like Speedmaster or Submariner hands, when broaching for fitting, the torque created often causes flexure of the hand, and then the fragile luminous fractures. He then stabilizes the back of the hand with binder.

    Should I be dubious about this explanation? Is it legitimate? Is there poor technique involved, or should he invest in a better piece of equipment for doing this task? Many thanks for your insights.
     
  2. kov Trüffelschwein. May 13, 2020

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    I think poor technique / inadequate tools involved would be the right explanation here...

    I did quit my previous watchmaker for exactly that reason : they managed to literally kill the hands of one of my Ed Whites. Not only the luminous material was damaged but also the paint on chrono, hour and minute hands.

    Curiously since I changed, after probably something like 40-50 watches serviced, this issue never ever happened with the new watchmaker and he doesn't need to stabilize the lume after touching the hands of my watches, even after several operations on the same watch.
     
  3. Pipo1202 May 13, 2020

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    Where is your watchmaker located?
     
  4. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' May 13, 2020

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    I believe his hands look like this...

    upload_2020-5-13_20-11-57.jpeg
     
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  5. ndgal May 13, 2020

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    Thor's hammer should not be used to re-install watch hands...
     
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  6. M'Bob May 13, 2020

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    I feared this was the issue. Do you happen to know what the industry standard tool is for holding the hands while they’re being broached?
     
  7. kov Trüffelschwein. May 13, 2020

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    I don’t know but @Archer certainly has a good hint to share :)
     
  8. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' May 13, 2020

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    you need a guy with hands like this...

    upload_2020-5-13_20-32-26.png

    :D
     
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  9. M'Bob May 13, 2020

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    No, I need a girl with hands like that...
     
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  10. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker May 13, 2020

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    Need some clarification...

    Are these new modern hands, new old stock vintage hands or hands that have been fitted previously?

    So he is indicating that the damage is happening during the broaching?
     
  11. M'Bob May 13, 2020

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    New, old-stock vintage. Not previously fitted. I would assume after the initial broaching, they go on and off from that point on with no need to broach further, if going back on the same watch?

    Yes, the claim is that the damage is occurring during this initial broaching, as some pressure is being exerted on the hand while held, during this procedure. Have no idea what this hand-holding device is, and whether there are different kinds. Thanks for weighing in.
     
  12. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker May 14, 2020

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    I just wanted to be sure, because you didn't say they were new hands, but just being fitted for the "first time" - is that the first time on your watch, first time on any watch? Since this is in the vintage section, I didn't want to assume these were brand new hands...

    First off, it's not totally unusual to have to broach new hands to get them to fit properly. However in my experience the only two hands on Speedmaster that I've ever had to do this with is the minute recording hand, and the central seconds recording hand. I don't believe I've ever had to broach the hour hand, minute hand, or either of the other sub-dial hands.

    So the amount of material being removed is usually very small, unless you are trying to fit a hand that really wasn't made for the watch you are trying to fit it on. This isn't a Speedmaster hand, but this is the sort of broach I would be using for the two hands I would typically have to broach for a Speedmaster - it's finer than any needle you have ever had...

    Archer Ref 2439 D_0046.jpg
    This is a steel hand, so much more difficult to ream than the soft hands on a Speedmaster, but there is very little pressure involved in doing this.

    I do have a hand holder for broaching, but to be honest I never use it. it was one of those "must have" tools that ended up being pretty useless in my view. I took this photo of it to show you:

    Hand holder.jpg
    I put it beside a pair of tweezers for scale, but the whole thing is about 22 mm long, so less than an inch. It's spring loaded, so you pull the two knurled disks apart, put the hand in between them with the hole in the hand lining up with one of the holes in the disks, and then you turn a part that goes on the threads you see there (mine is missing at the moment) to clamp the hand firmly, and put the reamer through the hole to ream out the hand. Looks like this in use - photo I found on the net...

    180.127.jpg

    I quickly learned that this can damage hands just by clamping it in the tool...so I may have used it once I think. I simply hold the hand in my fingers with finger cots on, and gently ream the hand out. You do have to go slow, because reamers will "catch" in the hole if you are too aggressive, and this will cause the hand to want to spin on the reamer - I suspect this is what your watchmaker is referring to when he says the "torque" is what is causing the damage. He's holding the hand in his fingers, it catches, the hand spins, and then there's pressure on the part of the hand where the lume is.

    The holder solves that problem, but may damage the hand from clamping, so I just go slowly when doing this job and have never damaged a hand in the process.

    Cheers, Al
     
  13. M'Bob May 14, 2020

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    Fabulous, many thanks.