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  1. VisionOmega Dec 28, 2021

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    Hi there!
    Once again I’m in need of some help and I call upon this members knowledge ;)

    I’m looking to purchase my first speedmaster. Now I know that over the years since it’s release there have been several different models. I went over the buying gids on Fratello and mines this forum.

    However, I’m still unsure about what model would be the best buy for my budget? My budget ranges from €4.000-€6.000.

    Would it be the new 2021 model with the 3861 caliber? The 145.022? Or the last year discontinued one with the 1861 caliber?

    Other suggestions are more than welcome!!
     
  2. Davidt Dec 28, 2021

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    1861.
     
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  3. Badwolf Dec 28, 2021

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    Personally, I would look for an early 145.022 with a step dial. More character than the later iterations.

    It really depends on what you want from the watch. If you want a pristine, boxed item with all the documentation, then the 3861 is a nice choice.

    Another suggestion would be the FOIS, an early style case with some unique elements.

    10E5CC05-3B16-4EA0-8E60-A531C47607FE.jpeg
     
  4. padders Oooo subtitles! Dec 28, 2021

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    If you don’t know what you are doing you are better off with a modern model, whether that is a 1861 or 3861 model. The tritium dialled watches are a minefield for the unwary with countless tiny variations between years. You could spend the necessary £5-10K to buy a charming 1960s or 70s model to find you’ve bought a pile of mismatched junk with half the resale value or less. Doing it properly requires effort, time and research. Or lots of luck.

    What I am basically saying is unless you have read and digested MWO and SP101 you should stick to 21st century watches. If you don’t know what those abbreviations mean then that should illustrate my point.
     
    Edited Dec 28, 2021
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  5. Screwbacks Dec 28, 2021

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    if you are into vintage watch collection for the past years or planning to be, 1861 is the logical choice. if not, i would choose the meta certified 3861. my 2¢.
     
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  6. PaoloTheDrummer Dec 28, 2021

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    FOIS is the best speedy value for money
     
  7. VisionOmega Dec 28, 2021

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    I have read a lot about these terms and models over the past years. However, I still feel like there is so much I don’t know and it easily becomes hard to see the wood for the trees :) I’m here to learn and that’s why I specifically ask advice about this topic. Also very curious what knowledgeable forum members would do with this budget.
     
  8. Eddy350 Dec 28, 2021

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    I would go for a 3861 if you’re not sure. Can’t go wrong with a new Speedy but can go very bad with a vintage speedy. You can spend 5000k on a vintage watch with mismatched parts that needs a $700 service.
     
    Edited Dec 28, 2021
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  9. Davidt Dec 28, 2021

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    For daily wear I’d buy a new(ish) 1861. For a collection I’d buy an 80’s/early 90’s tritium 861 as these are a great balance point between great patina and price (if you know what to look for in a good example)
     
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  10. perenowell Dec 28, 2021

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    First, you got to take your time. ;)
    You can buy the moonwatch only too, it’s a nice book, you’ll learn a lot and will help you.

    then Make a choice : vintage ones or modern ones? Tritium or luminova?


    for 5k, i’d look for a vintage one. Nothing can beat a nice tritium patina. you can ask for help here if you find anything or look in the « watch for sale » threads.

    There was a -69 or SW lately in this range of price…
     
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  11. TheGreekPhysique Dec 28, 2021

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    It depends on if you are looking for vintage or new. For me its all about condition. If your leaning more towards a vintage piece finding a 145.022 in top condition in that price range is extremely difficult but not impossible. I would suggest a 3590.50. Still get a tritium dial that will age nicely with attractive patina and probably can still get B&P in top condition in that price range.

    If your looking for a new piece I would go for the 3861.
     
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  12. Matth84 Dec 28, 2021

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    It really depends on what you like, will it be vintage or new? A vintage Speedmaster is - from my perspective - more unique because it has been worn over several years, and this journey is what you see on the case / bezel / dial / etc.
    Do you want a 100% perfect Speedmaster, go for a new one.
     
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  13. iamvr Dec 28, 2021

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    I agree and did exactly that: bought a FOIS as daily beater. It‘s my only modern Omega. I don’t have to worry about water ingression and enjoy a 5 year warranty. For the collection I added a late 80s 861 with popping tritium.

    E9C499DB-DFEE-48E9-9899-F7DAF0FBD966.jpeg 885430F4-2403-4440-9DD9-61F7FDE5421C.jpeg
     
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  14. padders Oooo subtitles! Dec 28, 2021

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    The reason I posted what I did suggesting caution was because the choices you offered were 3861/1861 vs 145.022. Note this latter option means a watch from before the early-mid 1980s, as at that point the case number went over to 145.0022 (note the double zero). The fact you wrote this made me think that more research was needed. if I was mistaken and in fact you meant exactly this then I take my comments back and in fact you may well be equipped to buy an older model without fear.

    I know I sound awfully pedantic above. In fact the best answer might be to buy the FOIS, those are great!
     
    Edited Dec 28, 2021
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  15. crd Dec 28, 2021

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    I was in a similar situation as you not too long ago; similar budget and similar decision. Rather than repeat a lot of the good advice that has already been presented, I will share my journey and maybe that can inform your decision even more. My interested in the Speedmaster is as the “Moonwatch” and the most interesting pieces to me are the ones with the strongest connections to NASA, spaceflight, and of course the Moon. For me, the vintage pieces with the strongest connections all used a 321 calibre movement and are all well outside of the stated budget if you’re looking for something that doesn’t need much work.

    CK2998 was the first Speedmaster to be worn in space in ‘62 onboard the Mercury-Atlas 8 “Sigma 7.”; it was Wally Schirra‘s personal watch The current generation “FOIS/First Omega in Space” is designed to look similar to that reference but with a more modern 1861 movement and is priced accessibly and within the budget.

    105.003 was the only watch to survive James Ragan’s battery of tests that lead to the relationship between NASA and Omega with the Speemaster becoming officially certified for manned space missions in ‘65. This reference would be used in the Gemini missions and was worn by Ed White in the first ever NASA EVA. The current generation “Calibre 321” steel heritage model is based on this reference; still outside of the budget but all things considered not a bad price for what it is.

    105.012 was the first to introduce the asymmetric case designed to protect the pushers and crown, the first to introduce the “Professional” distinction on the dial, and the first used in Apollo missions. Buzz Aldrin was the first to wear it on the Moon during Apollo 11. The newest 3861 is going to look the most like these externally, notably with the reintroduction of the stepped dial and DO90 bezel.

    145.012 was the last to use the the 321 calibre movement and was also used in later Apollo missions.

    With all of this into consideration, I chose to go with the new 3861 for now. They are easy to find within the budget and most closely aesthetically resemble the first watch worn on the Moon. A very close second for me would have been the 1861 FOIS. I generally prefer the cleaner dial and simpler case design. However, at the time that I was looking to acquire I stumbled across a deal on a 3861 here in the for sale forums that I couldn’t pass up. This lets me wear a watch that still has a lot of meaning to me that I don’t really have to worry about from the perspective of reliability. Now I can spend more time researching all of the nuances of the models above while I squirrel away money to replenish my watch budget. By the time I have enough to afford one of the more significant references I should be better equipped to discern a good deal from a bad one.
     
    Edited Dec 28, 2021
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  16. padders Oooo subtitles! Dec 28, 2021

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    I hate myself but must point out that there is no such thing as a 105.022, you missed the 145.012 which was around 67-68 and was the last case number to use the 321 and then the 861s came around in the form of the 145.022. Pedantic? Moi?
     
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  17. crd Dec 28, 2021

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    Corrected. Thanks for pointing out my fat fingers. Pedantry is totally called for here. I genuinely appreciate it.
     
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  18. VisionOmega Dec 28, 2021

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    Absolutely a fair point @padders! I value your sharp eye for detail and the fact that you prevent people from taking wrong decisions.

    I’m aware indeed that these are very different models. As mentioned, all different nuances and price ranges provide me fun nights researching. From your answers and rest above I will more closely deep dive into FOIS.

    Haven’t seen the new 3861 yet. Was triggered at first because of all the subtle references to older models, but will take the advice from @vicsdca to have a closer look in person.
     
  19. VisionOmega Dec 29, 2021

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    Don’t get me wrong, definitively no bad intentions here but looking closer at the FOiS I was wondering why the FOiS is preferred by so many / more popular than the 311.30.42.30.01.005?

    Personally, I find the the hands of the FOiS a little less attractive.
     
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  20. VisionOmega Dec 30, 2021

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    Anyone? :)