Speed master from 1962

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What are your thoughts on it?
Do you think it’s ‘collector’ grade?
Is there anything that detracts from this?
 
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This is a piece where the price is a crucial component of the overall desirability.

It also offered by a business, and as such I believe it has been prepared for sale - this is not a bad thing necessarily, but its a indication of how it has been prepared. Often just the shiny things have been done, not the important things. We will see.

So lets go through the basics - It is a 105.002 with a serial close to others I have seen, but it has no extract. Nowadays buying an expensive speedmaster without an extract is for the very rich or the very experienced.

The dial is Non Pro, stepped, SWISS MADE. I think it is correct. The body is apparently solid without major blemish - but at this level, you need better sight of the dial, either in person, or (much) better photos. Dial print is intact. What lets the dial down a little is to me the plots are a little weak in that the colour is whitish yellow, and not very attractive. The plots are a little thin, and a little dirty, but not majorly, just enough to make me hesitate. For me the dial is "Good" but others might push it to "Very Good". For certain I would not go lower than Good.

The bezel is "Fair"

The case, while I initially was going to go off on a rant about describing Speedmasters as unpolished, is most of the way to "Very Good". The more I look at it the more I like it. It is worn but it is not ground down and the case back is very well defined with no loss of bevels. I like this case. It strikes me as honest and less worn than many. There is no corrosion that I can see. (Often seen in these early examples at the lip or between the lugs)

The hands. We have to be very careful with Alphas and make sure they are appropriate - in this case, an early example of the reference, it is good to see these hands. The Alphas show a transverse curve and a lume silhouette I am happy with when comparing to others, and the rest of the hands look original too. "Very Good"

Pushers and crown look Original

Dust cover looks Original (It is strange how important I find this - an original dust cover in good condition indicates the watch has been cared for, and they are very hard to source if you need one).

Movement, looks in range for a 105002 but I would like an extract at this level of price. The movement has the symmetrical clutch bridge and looks to be in "Excellent" condition with no screw marks (Apart from one slightly damaged screw). So it has been apart, but I cannot tell the consequences.

Crystal has the correct silver rehaut and I would assume it to be a replacement but you never know.

A word on the 7912 bracelet and No 6 end-links. If these are all original and correct then they are a significant part of the value. Just how much I am slightly uncertain, and the condition will make a huge difference in value.

So we have:

Dial: Good
Case: Very Good
Bezel: Fair
MVT: Excellent

On my price chart (remember it is a public offering of my own notes and ideas, based on previous experience and to be used as a supplemental tool not an edict) A VERY GOOD 105002 is $28,000. While GOOD is 14,000

I can either take the Very Good price and work down, or the Good price and work up.

Very Good: 28,000
LESS: Dial -8,000, Bezel, -5000
PLUS: Bracelet and No6 +6,000

Comes to 21,000

Lets try the other way:

Good $14,000
LESS: Bezel $3000
PLUS: Case : $5000, Movement $2000, Bracelet $6,000

Comes to 24,000

So as you can see not a scientific thing and there is some kind of margin for error and arbitrary judgement.

What I would say about this watch is this:

The dial is normally the heart of the attraction, or desirability of a watch, and this dial is original, intact in good condition BUT it leaves me a little cold, based on these photos. It may be that the dial in real life looks better - these light box photos never do any favors. Combined with the Fair bezel, this watch is falling down on the two areas I put at number one and number two. I know others might look at the case, but for me its dial and bezel. So working through my system, it is "Worth the money" at 21,000 to 24,000.

But do you actually like it?
 
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would you say the watch is in a "collector" shape ?
You will not get a clear answer to this as this is so different between collectors and varies from watch to watch and what you intend to do with it. But as @Spacefruit said, "the price is a crucial component of the overall desirability."
 
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@Spacefruit has pretty much covered everything you need to know.

It would still be interesting to get your thoughts on it OP.
 
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I really hope the OP has PM'd @Spacefruit to thank him for his detailed assessment because there has been no public acknowledgement for the assistance 😉
 
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I really hope the OP has PM'd @Spacefruit to thank him for his detailed assessment because there has been no public acknowledgement for the assistance 😉

He is currently busy negotiating. 😁
 
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Don't have shit to contribute about speedmasters but how about the stellar assessment and amazing contribution to this forum and to this hobby that @Spacefruit has displayed?

Tune out the trolls and tune in the world-class gentlemen and horology experts that live here, sometimes rather quietly, but easy to recognize.
 
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This is a piece where the price is a crucial component of the overall desirability.

It also offered by a business, and as such I believe it has been prepared for sale - this is not a bad thing necessarily, but its a indication of how it has been prepared. Often just the shiny things have been done, not the important things. We will see.

So lets go through the basics - It is a 105.002 with a serial close to others I have seen, but it has no extract. Nowadays buying an expensive speedmaster without an extract is for the very rich or the very experienced.

The dial is Non Pro, stepped, SWISS MADE. I think it is correct. The body is apparently solid without major blemish - but at this level, you need better sight of the dial, either in person, or (much) better photos. Dial print is intact. What lets the dial down a little is to me the plots are a little weak in that the colour is whitish yellow, and not very attractive. The plots are a little thin, and a little dirty, but not majorly, just enough to make me hesitate. For me the dial is "Good" but others might push it to "Very Good". For certain I would not go lower than Good.

The bezel is "Fair"

The case, while I initially was going to go off on a rant about describing Speedmasters as unpolished, is most of the way to "Very Good". The more I look at it the more I like it. It is worn but it is not ground down and the case back is very well defined with no loss of bevels. I like this case. It strikes me as honest and less worn than many. There is no corrosion that I can see. (Often seen in these early examples at the lip or between the lugs)

The hands. We have to be very careful with Alphas and make sure they are appropriate - in this case, an early example of the reference, it is good to see these hands. The Alphas show a transverse curve and a lume silhouette I am happy with when comparing to others, and the rest of the hands look original too. "Very Good"

Pushers and crown look Original

Dust cover looks Original (It is strange how important I find this - an original dust cover in good condition indicates the watch has been cared for, and they are very hard to source if you need one).

Movement, looks in range for a 105002 but I would like an extract at this level of price. The movement has the symmetrical clutch bridge and looks to be in "Excellent" condition with no screw marks (Apart from one slightly damaged screw). So it has been apart, but I cannot tell the consequences.

Crystal has the correct silver rehaut and I would assume it to be a replacement but you never know.

A word on the 7912 bracelet and No 6 end-links. If these are all original and correct then they are a significant part of the value. Just how much I am slightly uncertain, and the condition will make a huge difference in value.

So we have:

Dial: Good
Case: Very Good
Bezel: Fair
MVT: Excellent

On my price chart (remember it is a public offering of my own notes and ideas, based on previous experience and to be used as a supplemental tool not an edict) A VERY GOOD 105002 is $28,000. While GOOD is 14,000

I can either take the Very Good price and work down, or the Good price and work up.

Very Good: 28,000
LESS: Dial -8,000, Bezel, -5000
PLUS: Bracelet and No6 +6,000

Comes to 21,000

Lets try the other way:

Good $14,000
LESS: Bezel $3000
PLUS: Case : $5000, Movement $2000, Bracelet $6,000

Comes to 24,000

So as you can see not a scientific thing and there is some kind of margin for error and arbitrary judgement.

What I would say about this watch is this:

The dial is normally the heart of the attraction, or desirability of a watch, and this dial is original, intact in good condition BUT it leaves me a little cold, based on these photos. It may be that the dial in real life looks better - these light box photos never do any favors. Combined with the Fair bezel, this watch is falling down on the two areas I put at number one and number two. I know others might look at the case, but for me its dial and bezel. So working through my system, it is "Worth the money" at 21,000 to 24,000.

But do you actually like it?

Wow. Very insightful. Exactly why I read here. Not surprised of course, but appreciative of the knowledge in general.
 
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Great breakdown Spacefruit (William). If OP, likes the watch and he can negotiate the price down significantly, it might be worth it, but, remember, eBay charges state sales tax, so if buyer is living in California, for example, add an additional 9.5% to the price and this must be taken into consideration.
 
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Great breakdown Spacefruit (William). If OP, likes the watch and he can negotiate the price down significantly, it might be worth it, but, remember, eBay charges state sales tax, so if buyer is living in California, for example, add an additional 9.5% to the price and this must be taken into consideration.

People probably already know this, but I just realized that I can figure out exactly how much tax will be added by putting an item in my eBay cart. It's worth doing, since it's never quite clear how much tax is charged. For example, in principle, Colorado state sales tax is 2.9%, but the total sales tax in my municipality is more like 8% when you include county and city sales taxes. For some reason eBay charges me a little less than 5%. Go figure. I think that California's state sales tax is actually closer to 7%, but obviously various jurisdictions have additional taxes. How much does eBay charge you? Check it out for yourself.

Amazon is similarly confusing. I get charged different amounts of sales tax all the time on that site.
 
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I really hope the OP has PM'd @Spacefruit to thank him for his detailed assessment because there has been no public acknowledgement for the assistance 😉

@Spacefruit - Thank you. For this, and for the numerous times you have helped the community grow with your generosity of thought and words.
 
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This is a piece where the price is a crucial component of the overall desirability.

...

But do you actually like it?

Many thanks, William, it's wonderful to hear how you think about valuation, and also to calibrate your "scores". I wish that all sellers using your chart were as self-aware and critical. For example, I doubt that most sellers would score that bezel as FAIR.

To answer the question, I do like it. It's appealing overall, and much better than the vast majority that we see coming to market. I'm not a buyer at $28k, but that's mostly because there are other watches I would rather buy at that price (which obviously has nothing to do with the value of the watch).
 
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How much does eBay charge you? Check it out for yourself.
As a California resident, this is what tax is on this watch
 
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As a California resident, this is what tax is on this watch

8.75%. Seems to depend on the county. State tax appears to be 7.25%.
https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/rates.aspx

They would charge me 4.99%. I don't know where that comes from. My state tax is 2.9%, my county tax is 0.985%, my city tax is 3.86%, and we have a regional transportation district sales tax of 1.1%. Where does 4.99% come from? Weird.

Any Europeans reading this are probably shaking their heads.
Edited:
 
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8.75%. Do you live in...
Covers been blown... Time to move (which I actually am in two weeks 😀).
 
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Covers been blown... Time to move (which I actually am in two weeks).

Actually, I thought better of that and deleted it. 😁
 
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What are your thoughts on it?
Do you think it’s ‘collector’ grade?
Is there anything that detracts from this?
Collector grade to me is a watch that satisfies the criteria of a knowledgeable collector ..obviously ! The difficulty for a non knowledgeable amateur is to see if this particular watch does indeed satisfy these criteria. As a beginner, I am learning by reading the threads in this OF. And I have to reckon I am not yet ready to judge watches like this one !
Thank you,
 
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This is a piece where the price is a crucial component of the overall desirability.

It also offered by a business, and as such I believe it has been prepared for sale - this is not a bad thing necessarily, but its a indication of how it has been prepared. Often just the shiny things have been done, not the important things. We will see.

So lets go through the basics - It is a 105.002 with a serial close to others I have seen, but it has no extract. Nowadays buying an expensive speedmaster without an extract is for the very rich or the very experienced.

The dial is Non Pro, stepped, SWISS MADE. I think it is correct. The body is apparently solid without major blemish - but at this level, you need better sight of the dial, either in person, or (much) better photos. Dial print is intact. What lets the dial down a little is to me the plots are a little weak in that the colour is whitish yellow, and not very attractive. The plots are a little thin, and a little dirty, but not majorly, just enough to make me hesitate. For me the dial is "Good" but others might push it to "Very Good". For certain I would not go lower than Good.

The bezel is "Fair"

The case, while I initially was going to go off on a rant about describing Speedmasters as unpolished, is most of the way to "Very Good". The more I look at it the more I like it. It is worn but it is not ground down and the case back is very well defined with no loss of bevels. I like this case. It strikes me as honest and less worn than many. There is no corrosion that I can see. (Often seen in these early examples at the lip or between the lugs)

The hands. We have to be very careful with Alphas and make sure they are appropriate - in this case, an early example of the reference, it is good to see these hands. The Alphas show a transverse curve and a lume silhouette I am happy with when comparing to others, and the rest of the hands look original too. "Very Good"

Pushers and crown look Original

Dust cover looks Original (It is strange how important I find this - an original dust cover in good condition indicates the watch has been cared for, and they are very hard to source if you need one).

Movement, looks in range for a 105002 but I would like an extract at this level of price. The movement has the symmetrical clutch bridge and looks to be in "Excellent" condition with no screw marks (Apart from one slightly damaged screw). So it has been apart, but I cannot tell the consequences.

Crystal has the correct silver rehaut and I would assume it to be a replacement but you never know.

A word on the 7912 bracelet and No 6 end-links. If these are all original and correct then they are a significant part of the value. Just how much I am slightly uncertain, and the condition will make a huge difference in value.

So we have:

Dial: Good
Case: Very Good
Bezel: Fair
MVT: Excellent

On my price chart (remember it is a public offering of my own notes and ideas, based on previous experience and to be used as a supplemental tool not an edict) A VERY GOOD 105002 is $28,000. While GOOD is 14,000

I can either take the Very Good price and work down, or the Good price and work up.

Very Good: 28,000
LESS: Dial -8,000, Bezel, -5000
PLUS: Bracelet and No6 +6,000

Comes to 21,000

Lets try the other way:

Good $14,000
LESS: Bezel $3000
PLUS: Case : $5000, Movement $2000, Bracelet $6,000

Comes to 24,000

So as you can see not a scientific thing and there is some kind of margin for error and arbitrary judgement.

What I would say about this watch is this:

The dial is normally the heart of the attraction, or desirability of a watch, and this dial is original, intact in good condition BUT it leaves me a little cold, based on these photos. It may be that the dial in real life looks better - these light box photos never do any favors. Combined with the Fair bezel, this watch is falling down on the two areas I put at number one and number two. I know others might look at the case, but for me its dial and bezel. So working through my system, it is "Worth the money" at 21,000 to 24,000.

But do you actually like it?

Good morning !
Just read your analysis and I am baffled by the detail exam you performed !
As I mentioned above, it is now obvious to me that I am not yet ready to do this kind of approach ! But I am learning !
Thank you very much for this !
 
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@Spacefruit has pretty much covered everything you need to know.

It would still be interesting to get your thoughts on it OP.
Hi !
Please see above .. not really knowledgeable enough I believe to have a educated opinion ! But just at looking at it, of course I like it ! How not to !