Long time lurker, first time poster. I know everyone is tired of hit-and-run posts from new members looking for free valuations and validations and then disappearing again, ...but I hope you'll indulge me as I'm a little bit lost on this one, and now that I'm out, well, I promise to try and contribute back something when and where I can.

So I recently purchased a 1974 Speedmaster. It was advertized as all original – completely original, but I'm afraid the hands tell another story. Absence of any patina and usual signs of browning with age that tritium hands would show, they react very strongly after being exposed to light, fading again almost as quickly.

So they seem almost certainly to be SL service replacements. Which I think I can live with,... I think. But the crankiness of the seller who continues to insist they are original – paired with the fact that the watch was advertized as having inner and outer boxes – which it does! (only from some other, non-Speedy Omega sold in the late 80's or early 90's) are red flags, and could cast a shadow over what are the more spectacular aspects...spectacular aspects which I will elaborate on now.

The entire watch is just, spookily well preserved. The crystal (scratch-free, signed) the case is also very nearly scratch free, very thick, well defined lugs ...all appears completely unpolished. It's insanely good. Bezel, nearly flawless. As is the bracelet, which seems original and period correct (though doesn't have the 1171 stamp I've observed in other bracelets of this vintage).

If you didn't hold it in your hand, and have a chance to notice how lightweight the bracelet feels...you might mistake it for a modern iteration, and it could almost pass as NOS. (I think the photographs make it look worse than it does IRL)

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Some photos...



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Other points of info...

* Nothing is really known about the service history.

* The dial doesn't get charged by light or glow with an intensity anywhere close to the hands, and so appears not to be service replacement. It also has T markers ...but on the other hand, does not have a step from the inner to outer dial on the minute track, as one would expect...and as this previous listing demonstrates.

* Watch includes an Omega extract

* But no photo of the caseback, and I have not opened the watch

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So what?

I can return this watch, though it's expensive and time consuming to ship back. I paid $4100 USD including shipping. ...more than the $3500 – 3750 I thought it might be worth because of some birth year sentimentality, and for the inner/outer boxes (which were a bust).

My big questions are...

* Should I be concerned about the dial and/or case being service replacements? Erh,...what's up with the no-step dial?

* Should I be concerned about the bracelet lacking a 1171 stamp? Weird.

* If I send it to Omega's local service center – can they see by looking inside at the movement or the case itself which elements are original and which are service?

* Definitive conclusions, next steps, suggestions?

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Thanks, all, for your time.

 

Welcome!

I suggest to look at the assessment guide here: http://speedmaster101.com/145-022-71-74-76-78/

You will find that several details that would make this watch attractive for vintage collectors are lost.

The dial, hands and possibly the pushers are all service replacements. Original Omega, but not "the original" for this watch.
This is what would be the normal case for any watch being handed over to an Omega AD for a service.

If the ref is a 1974, it should not have a stepped dial. The 145.022-71 was the latest Speedy with such dial installed. However the one in your watch seems to be a modern replacement based on the lume material.

Not a perfect vintage Speedy, but a perfectly wearable Speedy IMO.

 

Looks like a Omega serviced Speedie.... As above has mentioned

 

If it's a 145.022-71 or 145.022-74, it most definitely does not have its original dial. I think you should return this watch immediately, especially given the price you paid for it.

 

+1 on return

 

+2

 

Return the watch.

 

That's a steep price to pay for a service dial and SL hands. It is a very nice looking watch for sure, but you should have paid around $1000 less in my opinion. Especially if the boxes are not original to this watch.

 

It's a fine watch, but as others have said, I believe that you overpaid.

 

If you return it post the serial number and seller for all to see

 

Thanks – I have studied the guide, and it's one of the things that has thrown me off regarding the dial. My understanding is that service dials would not have T marks.

Great feedback, all. Thank you!

 

That's a service dial from the late '70s or '80s.

 

The dial currently on the watch is not stepped. If the case reference (inside the caseback) is 145.022-71, it should have a stepped dial. If the case reference is 145.022-74, it should not - but either way, this is not the correct dial. (Based on your description, the watch could be either reference as the -71 was produced through 1974)

As said above, this is a service dial from the late 1970s or the 1980s - it's tritium, but is still not the correct dial variant for this watch.

 

I can't make out the T SWISS MADE T marks on the dial in the photos you posted - do you have a photo of that?

Also, I'd like to see more photos of the case sides, to determine whether it's the original finish or a very skilled polish.

Either way - it appears that this watch probably went to Omega themselves at some point, and it does not feature the parts that it was originally produced with.

 

Complete lack of any patina or sign of age notwithstanding, how can you be sure? Wouldn't a service dial display SWISS without T bookends?

Having said that, I believe you are right. ;-)

 

A modern service dial would, yes - after around 1998 or so when all of the dials switched from tritium (which is what the T mark is for) to luminova.

This dial is the same variant fitted to later-production 145.022-76 models and throughout the 1980s, being replaced in around 1989-1991. I believe the dial was either replaced sometime in that time period, or a dial from that time period was taken from another watch and placed into this one. This dial was never fitted to either reference 145.022-71 or 145.022-74.

 

The case I had evaluated by a local shop with Speedy expertise – and they just looked at it with some mixture of suspicion and admiration. It's very difficult to see how this could have been polished back to this state. It's pristine, and has the satin and matte edge, very clean, with lugs, honestly, almost like a new watch. So it's either been sitting in a vacuum, or it is a service case. And it sounds like there is no way of knowing, definitively.

So I have to go with my gut, and consider the integrity of the person who tried to pass off a 1990's box with it as original as some guide to the provenance of the rest of it.

 

I think with so many doubts yourself you won't really enjoy the watch as it's not what you were really looking for. Return the watch and get back into search mode. Ultimately you will be much happier. You mentioned cost to return, is it just shipping or is there a "restocking" fee?

 

There is a fee, 5% – but I would argue that applies to change of heart, not...whatever the hell this is.

 

Sorry, when I wrote "this", I meant -> this. But then I tried to reply to something else, and things got mixed up. I tried to delete that post, but you responded before I could. Point stands, I suppose....that the watch in this post appears to be a 74 with a stepped dial. I suppose transitional.