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Togri v. 2.0
··Wow! Custom title... coolAnyone who uses all of their paper towels, and can't be bothered to immediately throw away the empty cardboard tube is NOT OK in my book.
Eeehhh 😟
So...what happened to the Timepiece Gentleman?
Eeehhh 😟
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vbrad26
·
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Foo2rama
··Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can.Zero remorse.
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DrmexicoII
·In my humble opinion, this is not rock bottom. Almost feel sorry for him. But then I remember the people that are owed money and my sympathy lies with them.
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Donn Chambers
·I do want to see his response, he got tied up in all that BS too.
Watch it quick, because he says he will take it down shortly.
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Syrte
··MWR Tech Support DeptWatch forums have introduced me to a whole new world of dishonesty and sleaze, is every business like that and have I been completely blind?😕
Or is my impression correct that the watch world lends itself to this heightened level of sleaze, due to the amount of money involved; but also the lack of objective criteria of what constitutes or should constitute value, the fact that trends and fashion play a big part, that it involves status symbols etc etc
Or is my impression correct that the watch world lends itself to this heightened level of sleaze, due to the amount of money involved; but also the lack of objective criteria of what constitutes or should constitute value, the fact that trends and fashion play a big part, that it involves status symbols etc etc
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Dan S
·I didn't know any of these names before this thread, and frankly I wish I still didn't know them. I already thought the watch industry was dirty, and that was just paying attention to manufacturers, auction houses, and high-end dealers. But this takes it to another level.
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ErichPryde
·Watch forums have introduced me to a whole new world of dishonesty and sleaze, is every business like that and have I been completely blind?😕
Or is my impression correct that the watch world lends itself to this heightened level of sleaze, due to the amount of money involved; but also the lack of objective criteria of what constitutes or should constitute value, the fact that trends and fashion play a big part, that it involves status symbols etc etc
Yes and no. This kind of stuff does happen in anything collectible "supply and demand" driven. Coins, firearms, trading cards...
Crypto and stock market related stuff like this tends to be a lot worse and less overt
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Syrte
··MWR Tech Support DeptCoins have very precise ratings and valuation systems as I’ve been told. Are there so many scam dealers or sellers?
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ErichPryde
·Coins have very precise ratings and valuation systems as I’ve been told. Are there so many scam dealers or sellers?
Very precise ratings for coins that have been graded by a service like PCGS, yes. Ungraded coins are very subject to... opinion. And the exact same thing that happened here or something similar can happen in the coin world too, especially if a dealer does something like promise to sell coins or collections on someone's behalf--- there's just as much room for dishonesty. It's not that it happens every single time, but the factors are largely the same, scarcity, high demand, "luxury/collectible" (so there's lots of money) and simple human greed.
I can think of coin dealers and every state I lived in that shut down because it turned out that they were doing something Shady or illegitimate or ripping off their customers or another dealer.
And whiskey, too. Collectible whiskey is a huge market for refilled bottlings and fake labels... gets wild.
Edit: I will say that there are two things that have made this much worse recently, one is the internet (specifically youtube and this seeming perception that anyone who can set up a professional looking channel is an expert and trustworthy), and the other is the "everything bubble" that occurred during covid. If people think there's easy money to be made, tends to attract all sorts of unsavories.
Edited:
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Syrte
··MWR Tech Support DeptVery precise ratings for coins that have been graded by a service like PCGS, yes. Ungraded coins are very subject to... opinion. And the exact same thing that happened here or something similar can happen in the coin world too, especially if a dealer does something like promise to sell coins or collections on someone's behalf--- there's just as much room for dishonesty. It's not that it happens every single time, but the factors are largely the same, scarcity, high demand, "luxury/collectible" (so there's lots of money) and simple human greed.
I can think of coin dealers and every state I lived in that shut down because it turned out that they were doing something Shady or illegitimate or ripping off their customers or another dealer.
And whiskey, too. Collectible whiskey is a huge market for refilled bottlings and fake labels... gets wild.
Edit: I will say that there are two things that have made this much worse recently, one is the internet (specifically youtube and this seeming perception that anyone who can set up a professional looking channel is an expert and trustworthy), and the other is the "everything bubble" that occurred during covid. If people think there's easy money to be made, tends to attract all sorts of unsavories.
thanks for taking the time to explain.
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Fish70
·Like sand through the hourglass.
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dsio
··Ash @ ΩFThese guys never go to jail for it so there’s no great downside for them when they leave everyone on the hook
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nzshadow
·It's almost like a man who is completely obsessed with portraying a successful lifestyle on social media, and who thinks the way to do this is to become the living embodiment of a 12-year-olds version of 'what's cool', & lives out this narcissistic fantasy through filming his every movement, and who also happens to be a convicted felon isn't trustworthy.
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RevZMan123
·Coins have very precise ratings and valuation systems as I’ve been told. Are there so many scam dealers or sellers?
Well, the issue in coin grading arises when you get outside the "big 2" -- PCGS & NGC -- who also made their own scale based upon the original Sheldon grading scale. Sooooooo, now there are tons of 3rd party graders out there who seem to have only GRADE 70 coins to sell. This is impossible, 70 is perfect perfection beyond all perfection. A single coin ding on the slide down the ejection ramp will render it at least a grade -- and maybe thousands of dollars in value -- lower. Every grade is still objective to a point but then they start to get subjective with the houses adding "+" coins or "sharp 65" to their ratings, etc.
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RevZMan123
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Yes, I downloaded it last night! Thanks.
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ErichPryde
·Well, the issue in coin grading arises when you get outside the "big 2" -- PCGS & NGC -- who also made their own scale based upon the original Sheldon grading scale. Sooooooo, now there are tons of 3rd party graders out there who seem to have only GRADE 70 coins to sell. This is impossible, 70 is perfect perfection beyond all perfection. A single coin ding on the slide down the ejection ramp will render it at least a grade -- and maybe thousands of dollars in value -- lower. Every grade is still objective to a point but then they start to get subjective with the houses adding "+" coins or "sharp 65" to their ratings, etc.
Yes, I almost posted this last night, this is part of the issue. I have a number of Cameo proof MS70 coins from small graders that DEFINITELY aren't. Not Cameo, not 70, but graded that way.
The problem arises when coin dealers misrepresent these to someone who doesn't know better. It's probably not going to happen in one of the big coins, but it definitely happens. In the same vein I've also seen a coin dealer claim that the coins he personally graded were more reliable than an NGC graded coin (and clearly exaggerate grade) and then simultaneously turn around when grading a coin someone wants to sell to him and grade it WAYYY down. Not really that uncommon in the business in some ways but there's scummy and then there's scummy. Funny how somebody is so much better than professional graders when he's selling but not when he's buying.
Another thing that happens is if dealers buy junk silver some will misquote spot price much lower. Or, another one I've seen is dealers attempt to sell bullion that's just worth its weight as a "really good investment" for a lot more.
Collecting coins really isn't much different than watches, there are a few of them that will appreciate every single year and many will remain static and sometimes even lose value. It's pretty easy for a coin dealer to try to convince the average person that every coin will appreciate like an Ed White, but the reality is many are no better than the average mass produced Omega and some are even as bad as tissot.
Oh, and then there's misrepresenting post-strike damage as a mint error... doesn't happen as much these days
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guaranteed.rohu
·Recent events remind me a bit of Chris Essery (horology house) in Australia, ponzi-scheming through fake Rolexes. Sad for their victims
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texasmade
·Recent events remind me a bit of Chris Essery (horology house) in Australia, ponzi-scheming through fake Rolexes. Sad for their victims
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Evose
·Recent events remind me a bit of Chris Essery (horology house) in Australia, ponzi-scheming through fake Rolexes. Sad for their victims
There's been a few cases — even one that originated on this forum, where a YouTuber had in possession a member's watch for going on 8 months iirc. It took this forum and others investigating to see a positive outcome. Point being, when you're readily handing over expensive and valuable items to an online personality, even one that appears legitimate, it's a gamble. That's why I don't trust grey and will never buy grey.
TPG is a good example of hubris and lack of ethics/morals, although he would position himself as the modern day Icarus. Instead of trying to 'rebuild' his reputation and make others whole, he just needs to disappear and work in the shadows. Continuing to stay in the spotlight is just bringing negative attention to the entire grey industry and spamming my YouTube with 'Anthony response videos'. Clout chasers.
