So... any of our members here have an interest in firearms?

Posts
3,140
Likes
14,702
Oh man! Wryfox, that is a find!

Stocks alone on that one are worth entry level Omega watch money to someone who wants them for restoring a scarce 1950s N-Frame Smith & Wesson to original appearance ... but are serial numbered to the original revolver which defeats true originality.

On that long-snouted beauty there are acres of luscious blue steel and rich walnut. So far above plastic framed, land fill grade pistols that can only compare in a manner most piteously! And, it's chambered for the glorious .44 Magnum!
All hail Elmer Keith!馃榿
 
Posts
6,782
Likes
53,752
All hail Elmer Keith!馃榿

All hail, indeed!



Oh no! I feel a story coming on!

Speaking of which, I once owned one of the original batch of 500 "pre-Model 29" 4-inch .44 Magnum revolvers, the barrel length that Elmer Keith agitated Smith & Wesson president Carl Hellstrom to produce, as related in Roy Jinks' "History of Smith & Wesson." A doubly rare bird it was.

Bought it right on the firing line of a Central Texas Rifle & Pistol Club HIgh Power Rifle Match one Sunday afternoon, just after we had completed shooting for the day. A competitor was showing it around and asking $300 for it so I bit. This was in the early 1980s so can't say if it was that good of a deal at the time. Came with factory original "diamond" checkered rosewood stocks of the same configuration as your walnut stocks and numbered to the revolver's serial number.

It had been been a lawman's holster gun so exhibited a measure of holster wear on its fine blue finish and the rosewood stocks' surfaces were worn. The stocks' hue was near black in color.

A request for a factory letter indicated that it had been shipped to Waco, Texas from Smith & Wesson in late December of 1956. I played with it for several years, toted it a few times on hikes and hunts on our old family place, and tested my favorite .44 Magnum handloads through its 4-inch barrel to compare velocity performance to my long-snouted 8 3/8-inch Model 29 that I purchased brand new in January of 1980.

After a few years, I determined that I liked a 4-inch pre-war Smith & Wesson .44 Special revolver for both toting and shooting purposes than I did the 4-inch .44 Magnum, as concussive and hard kicking as it was when using full powered loads in its 4-inch barrel. So, I sold the scarce early .44 Magnum for $350 and thought I made out like a bandit at the time. I knew exactly what it was, but such special interest collectible guns didn't command big prices at that time. Now I rue the day I sold it and mourn the revolver. I still dream about it in my sleep.


Here's the Smith & Wesson Model 29 that I bought new in 1980. By then the stocks lost their diamond pattern around the escutcheon and Smith & Wesson ballyhooed the wonders of the high contrasting figure of the goncalo alves stocks they put on their premium revolvers instead of good Missouri walnut. My revolver is still "pinned and recessed" (barrel anchored with a retaining pin and chambers in the cylinder expertly recessed to contain cartridge rims flush with rear cylinder face), two nice, thoughtful touches that were later deleted for production economy. Yet, by 1980 the premium high polish blue surfaces weren't quite as expertly polished as those craftsmen produced in the 1950s or earlier. Side by side, your revolver from that era and my revolver of 20-25 years later won't appear different superficially, but for those in the know the craftsmanship will shine through on the earlier revolver.

Still, my Smith & Wesson Model 29 scratches an itch, anytime I inspect it or take it out for "exercise." And, lest anyone succumb to the amplification of rumor that Model 29s are tender and won't hold up to a lot of full powered .44 Magnum shooting, I offer mine as a rebuttal. Seems that as the internet firearms hobby forum came into fruition this rumor achieved wide circulation, mostly by those who worshiped at the alter of the Ruger .44 Magnums and their thick cast steel frames and those who wanted to appear knowledgeable through repeating hearsay.

I jumped into Hunter Pistol Silhouette competition with both feet about the time I acquired the Model 29. For four years I shot the Model 29 in competition, racking up a lot of matches each season and practicing at the local gun club range several times per month. The rules change allowing scoped handguns ran me off from that competition for I didn't want to use scopes. The gun magazines of the era promoted the necessity of powerful loadings for flat shooting and knock down power on those 100 yard rams. So, I developed gut-bustin' handloads and fired gobs of them off in the Model 29. I also deer hunted with the revolver some and shot it for fun. The revolver yet locks up on each chamber (only barely on a couple of them). The forcing cone though exhibits quite a lot of erosion from the nuclear powered charges of Hodgdon H 110 powder lit off and funneled into the barrel. It still groups better than my ability to hold and shoot it.

My "widdle feelings" were hurt in 2023 when I attended the Smith & Wesson Collectors Association symposium in Glendale, Arizona. I was wandering the exhibit hall and came across an 8 3/8-inch Model 29 with a serial number near mine, all laid out in its original wooden exhibit box with instruction sheet other factory literature, and cleaning equipment. I still have all that stuff that came with mine and mentioned the fact. The exhibitor had an eye-popping $2400 price tag dangling from his Model 29s trigger guard. I asked if they were really worth all that now and related that I had one just like his, with nearly perfect external surface finish, but was well worn from shooting use, describing the forcing cone erosion.

The exhibitor got on his high horse and began sternly lecturing me on why I shouldn't have used it and subjected it to all the wear and tear. He was really insensed! I finally interupted him in the middle of his preaching tirade, telling him I bought the revolver brand new back then and bought it to use, so use it I did and didn't need him 40-something years hence to tell me how irresponsible I had been to use a future collectible in such a manner.

Save the hobby from cold clammy handed "collectors!"
 
Posts
101
Likes
50
Timing is perfect. Lockup is tight.

And yeah I usually look for vintage items that are not "too nice" to shoot. That's why I like pawn shops. Nature of the product selection is its not too nice, and usually a great deal as most staff don't know enough to recognize a rarity like this. To them it was a regular old S&W, and priced accordingly. So many good deals found at pawn shops. Just look above at my shotgun post. 200 bucks. Book value about 4k. The lever action was 300.

Here in retirement heavy Florida the scenario of a widow dumping all her late husbands guns at a pawn shop to get rid of them is daily occurrence.
I scrolled up a bit and saw the post re: 12g, yeah, that is far nicer furniture than can be found on a sub-$4k firearm today. Wood grade labels are not nearly what they were 30-40 years ago. I've read posts about the significant increase in heirs looking to offload significant collections in recent years because the younger generations have far lower interest or knowledge in the type and quality of items collectors amassed for decades. Of course buying bulk collections is a buyer's market today, it's such a regulated and time-consuming process to hold a shop at retail, or pack, transport, set up, take down and re-store at gun shows, inventory, even listing on GB or f-t-f sales take more work than most folks see a benefit from. Considering the popularity of modern firearms, a person stating to cover their needs is looking at several thousand dollars easily to fund a safe, rifle shotgun handgun, then a .22lr, ammo stock, cleaning supplies, and seeing an 'old' 12g or revolver at same dollar cost as they can get a basic polymer glock/ AR/ mossberg, even if they value the idea of truly nice old growth US walnut wood stocks that are beautiful, have 3x the density of current production wood, and will last, it's hard for many to choose those qualities from a financial perspective. Glad to read posts indicating value can still be found out there, nice work - happy hunting, whether it's for bargains, varmints or game.
 
Posts
3,140
Likes
14,702
I scrolled up a bit and saw the post re: 12g, yeah, that is far nicer furniture than can be found on a sub-$4k firearm today. Wood grade labels are not nearly what they were 30-40 years ago. I've read posts about the significant increase in heirs looking to offload significant collections in recent years because the younger generations have far lower interest or knowledge in the type and quality of items collectors amassed for decades. Of course buying bulk collections is a buyer's market today, it's such a regulated and time-consuming process to hold a shop at retail, or pack, transport, set up, take down and re-store at gun shows, inventory, even listing on GB or f-t-f sales take more work than most folks see a benefit from. Considering the popularity of modern firearms, a person stating to cover their needs is looking at several thousand dollars easily to fund a safe, rifle shotgun handgun, then a .22lr, ammo stock, cleaning supplies, and seeing an 'old' 12g or revolver at same dollar cost as they can get a basic polymer glock/ AR/ mossberg, even if they value the idea of truly nice old growth US walnut wood stocks that are beautiful, have 3x the density of current production wood, and will last, it's hard for many to choose those qualities from a financial perspective. Glad to read posts indicating value can still be found out there, nice work - happy hunting, whether it's for bargains, varmints or game.
I've hung around enough gun shops over the years to have seen hundreds of people come in to sell, having no clue what they have, and counting on the gun shop employee, the person that may buy it, to re them what it is and what's it's worth. Sadly they will then have no ability to determine if it is correct, or fair.

I about passed out one day when a fellow brought in a 1965 Colt AR15, virtually new, with box and all the goodies. How much will ya gimme for it? Gun store guy(who I suspect knew every bit what it was), said well it's kinda old so aint worth much. Gave him 400. Guy walks out, I said to the gun store guy, I'll give you a quick profit, I'll give you a 1000 right now. He said nope, 5000. In the end the gun store guy kept it himself. Sadly happens all the time....
 
Posts
3,140
Likes
14,702
All hail, indeed!



Oh no! I feel a story coming on!

Speaking of which, I once owned one of the original batch of 500 "pre-Model 29" 4-inch .44 Magnum revolvers, the barrel length that Elmer Keith agitated Smith & Wesson president Carl Hellstrom to produce, as related in Roy Jinks' "History of Smith & Wesson." A doubly rare bird it was.

Bought it right on the firing line of a Central Texas Rifle & Pistol Club HIgh Power Rifle Match one Sunday afternoon, just after we had completed shooting for the day. A competitor was showing it around and asking $300 for it so I bit. This was in the early 1980s so can't say if it was that good of a deal at the time. Came with factory original "diamond" checkered rosewood stocks of the same configuration as your walnut stocks and numbered to the revolver's serial number.

It had been been a lawman's holster gun so exhibited a measure of holster wear on its fine blue finish and the rosewood stocks' surfaces were worn. The stocks' hue was near black in color.

A request for a factory letter indicated that it had been shipped to Waco, Texas from Smith & Wesson in late December of 1956. I played with it for several years, toted it a few times on hikes and hunts on our old family place, and tested my favorite .44 Magnum handloads through its 4-inch barrel to compare velocity performance to my long-snouted 8 3/8-inch Model 29 that I purchased brand new in January of 1980.

After a few years, I determined that I liked a 4-inch pre-war Smith & Wesson .44 Special revolver for both toting and shooting purposes than I did the 4-inch .44 Magnum, as concussive and hard kicking as it was when using full powered loads in its 4-inch barrel. So, I sold the scarce early .44 Magnum for $350 and thought I made out like a bandit at the time. I knew exactly what it was, but such special interest collectible guns didn't command big prices at that time. Now I rue the day I sold it and mourn the revolver. I still dream about it in my sleep.


Here's the Smith & Wesson Model 29 that I bought new in 1980. By then the stocks lost their diamond pattern around the escutcheon and Smith & Wesson ballyhooed the wonders of the high contrasting figure of the goncalo alves stocks they put on their premium revolvers instead of good Missouri walnut. My revolver is still "pinned and recessed" (barrel anchored with a retaining pin and chambers in the cylinder expertly recessed to contain cartridge rims flush with rear cylinder face), two nice, thoughtful touches that were later deleted for production economy. Yet, by 1980 the premium high polish blue surfaces weren't quite as expertly polished as those craftsmen produced in the 1950s or earlier. Side by side, your revolver from that era and my revolver of 20-25 years later won't appear different superficially, but for those in the know the craftsmanship will shine through on the earlier revolver.

Still, my Smith & Wesson Model 29 scratches an itch, anytime I inspect it or take it out for "exercise." And, lest anyone succumb to the amplification of rumor that Model 29s are tender and won't hold up to a lot of full powered .44 Magnum shooting, I offer mine as a rebuttal. Seems that as the internet firearms hobby forum came into fruition this rumor achieved wide circulation, mostly by those who worshiped at the alter of the Ruger .44 Magnums and their thick cast steel frames and those who wanted to appear knowledgeable through repeating hearsay.

I jumped into Hunter Pistol Silhouette competition with both feet about the time I acquired the Model 29. For four years I shot the Model 29 in competition, racking up a lot of matches each season and practicing at the local gun club range several times per month. The rules change allowing scoped handguns ran me off from that competition for I didn't want to use scopes. The gun magazines of the era promoted the necessity of powerful loadings for flat shooting and knock down power on those 100 yard rams. So, I developed gut-bustin' handloads and fired gobs of them off in the Model 29. I also deer hunted with the revolver some and shot it for fun. The revolver yet locks up on each chamber (only barely on a couple of them). The forcing cone though exhibits quite a lot of erosion from the nuclear powered charges of Hodgdon H 110 powder lit off and funneled into the barrel. It still groups better than my ability to hold and shoot it.

My "widdle feelings" were hurt in 2023 when I attended the Smith & Wesson Collectors Association symposium in Glendale, Arizona. I was wandering the exhibit hall and came across an 8 3/8-inch Model 29 with a serial number near mine, all laid out in its original wooden exhibit box with instruction sheet other factory literature, and cleaning equipment. I still have all that stuff that came with mine and mentioned the fact. The exhibitor had an eye-popping $2400 price tag dangling from his Model 29s trigger guard. I asked if they were really worth all that now and related that I had one just like his, with nearly perfect external surface finish, but was well worn from shooting use, describing the forcing cone erosion.

The exhibitor got on his high horse and began sternly lecturing me on why I shouldn't have used it and subjected it to all the wear and tear. He was really insensed! I finally interupted him in the middle of his preaching tirade, telling him I bought the revolver brand new back then and bought it to use, so use it I did and didn't need him 40-something years hence to tell me how irresponsible I had been to use a future collectible in such a manner.

Save the hobby from cold clammy handed "collectors!"
Nooooo! Really thought the story about the 4" was gonna turn out better than that馃槦

Sent off for the S&W letter a couple days ago. Hope it was a cool story. A texas destination would be extra cool.

I belonged to a Silhouette club during my time in San Antonio. Shot a Silhouette model 29 at 500 meters. Steel plate rams. Heavy too. They were designed for rifle silhouette so you had to stuff those 44s for all their worth to get em to knock over, that is if you had the skill to hit em in the first place.

I also had the Python hunting package from the mid 80s. Dumbass me sold both the Silhouette and the Python for peanuts way back when.

But you're right, they just weren't thought of that special back then. Still considered tools up through the 80s.

I tried to find a worn shooter grade python the past few years, if I happen to come across one. Turns out it's pretty hard. Everyone started collecting them instead of shooting them and everything I saw was new in box. Then I found one with some me holster and shooting wear. Figured it had to be an old police gun. Fair enough price and now I have a shooter. In my opinion a rarer gun than all those stuffy new in box guns.

Funny thing was that I'd ask at gun shows for a worn python and the looks I got were priceless, like I murdered their momma. Sacrilage, Sir! How dare you suggest these priceless artifacts should be used for their purpose!馃槣
 
Posts
4,095
Likes
11,651
@Wryfox 's new .44 Magnum reminds me of my old S&W .357 Magnum. It was a nice gun, built in 1954 or 1955 but just didn't get shot much compared to my Colt 3-5-7 or my Pythons, so it is gone now.



I did recently pick up a new S&W and didn't show it off here, a Model 1905 Hand Ejector, 4th change in 32-20. It is a good shooting little revolver with a good bore, in one of my favorite calibers to plink with.

 
Posts
4,095
Likes
11,651
Oh, and speaking of worn Pythons, my Python is an ex Oklahoma Highway Patrolman's sidearm, so it has holster wear but almost zero wear and tear on the action. It had a set of hold Pachmayr Presentation grips on it, so I located a set of original ones for it.

 
Posts
3,140
Likes
14,702
Back in the 70 and 80s a type of pistol competition became super popular with the public, called PPC. It means many things depending on who is running the event, Police Practical Competition, or Practical Police Combat, or Police Pistol Combat, or Practical Police Course, or Precision Pistol Competition, or Practical Pistol Competition, or Police Practical Combat, or Practical Pistol Course, or....oh crap lets just say PPC. Its a form of competition that tests real world scenarios and pistol accuracy.

Back in the 50s when it started out it was just a pistol accuracy game, 7yds, 25yds, 50yds(yowza).

The customization of revolvers in those decades 50s to 80s, became high art.

Its not easy to make a revolver accurate, as you are tuning essentially 6 guns at once, where every single chamber in the cylinder has to line up exactly centered with the forcing cone of the barrel, repeatable every time. It's incredible the hand work to do this.

Many custom makers made these fine arms back then. Davis, Behlert, Clark, the list is long.

Thing is, the expertise is largely lost today and most custom makers are in the semi auto pistol game.

I LOVE the old school PPC revolvers. It is the pinnacle of what could be done to a revolver.

Fortunately they are mostly pretty cheap today because the competitions, though they still exist, are becoming rarer and rarer. They are also heavy to tame the recoil and allow quick reset of sights for the next shot.

Here is the coolest one. A S&W Model 29-3 in 44 mag(mid 80s). Its not a PPC gun per se but rather it used the fine craftmanship earned over decades from PPC talent. It is likely a Steel Silhouette gun, which became quite popular in the 80s when revolver accuracy became so good you could shoot 300yds with a revolver like this.

I used to belong to a Silhouette club in San Antonio that went out to 500meters. I've posted here before about my 1911 longslide pistol shooting at 500meters. Its a very cool experience for sure.

Anyway, this model 29 weighs 70 ounces, almost 4 1/2 lbs. Those holes are for additional tungsten weights that can be added(sadly I do not have them).

Action is like buttah. Smoooooooooooth. Plus, it just looks dang cool!
 
Posts
949
Likes
4,365
I have many happy memories of PPC and IPSC competitions - thanks for bringing them back.

I used to lightly modify factory S&Ws - trigger sear work, spring adjustments, fitting combat butts for better control, red foresight inserts and so on. Nothing like the specialist modifications you mention, but it gave me a lot of pleasure, and won some comps.

One of my sons caught the bug and is now as keen as I was.

He took his twelve year old daughter out a while ago and I have a feeling she is hooked too.