Should I be mad? - Service took off letters on original dial

Jimbor · Nov 1, 2023

I treated myself with a 30th birthday present. Found a Seamaster Grand Luxe with a really nice original dial. Needed a service and had some old debris on the back of the crystal.

took it in for a service and asked them to clean the back of the crystal. I wasn’t worried about the dial and I explicitly said not to use any solvents for cleaning the dial. I have had some watches serviced here before, does a lot of vintage work. No reason not to trust him.

picked it up today and the letters are well faded and some of the letters are missing portions. I can still make it out and maybe I’m being picky. the first photo is after the refinish and the 2nd is before. I’m in a tough spot because if I get the letters redone I’ve devalued my watch but I also feel like the shop de-valued it as well.

My gut is telling me to live with it, I don’t plan on reselling but it still frustrates me.

Am I over-reacting?

Canuck · Nov 1, 2023

Sorry, but it looks good to me!

nanjingcigaretes · Nov 1, 2023

I think this may not have been the best example to purchase in the first place (soft case, wrong crown and poor dial). If you had asked here first, I believe most of the experienced members would have suggested avoiding this purchase. I would not want to invest any more money on it, and I wouldn't want to keep it either. You could try selling it on ebay and see what you can get back for it, then reinvest that into something better. I also think the watchmaker should take some responsibility for the faded dial.

Dan S · Nov 1, 2023

I think it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other. The printing may be slightly faded, but it was really dirty before.

Jimbor · Nov 1, 2023

nanjingcigaretes
I think this may not have been the best example to purchase in the first place (soft case, wrong crown and poor dial). If you had asked here first, I believe most of the experienced members would have suggested avoiding this purchase. I would not want to invest any more money on it, and I wouldn't want to keep it either. You could try selling it on ebay and see what you can get back for it, then reinvest that into something better. I also think the watchmaker should take some responsibility for the faded dial.

Thanks for the reply. I know it’s not the most ideal piece. It’s the us case and wrong crown which isn’t ideal. But from my research these dials are 18k even the US models. Not that it makes it rare, it’s just unique which I like. From lack of experience what should I have looked for in the dial making it a poor example? I don’t plan on investing anymore into it, other than maybe finding the right crown. I’m going to go in and talk to him tomorrow.

Jimbor · Nov 1, 2023

Dan S
I think it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other. The printing may be slightly faded, but it was really dirty before.

That’s the catch why I don’t want to beat him up too bad. I think he did a good job considering, I know he didn’t use harsh chemicals. Just a touch bummed but I can live with it! At least they aren’t gone ‍♂️

Jimbor · Nov 1, 2023

Canuck
Sorry, but it looks good to me!

Don’t apologize, you’re going to help me sleep better tonight lol

Davidt · Nov 2, 2023

I’m not following. Did you ask them to clean the dial and they did but took some letters away, or you told them not to touch the dial and they did it anyway?

daderaz · Nov 2, 2023

The dial has probably been cleaned. A cotton swab and some saliva, or worse, some Marseille soap, is enough to make the writing disappear.
I think it's best to leave it like that.

Jimbor · Nov 2, 2023

Davidt
I’m not following. Did you ask them to clean the dial and they did but took some letters away, or you told them not to touch the dial and they did it anyway?

I did not ask to specifically clean the dial. The majority of the debris was on the inside of the crystal and that is what I asked to have cleaned as you can see in the photo. To my detriment, I did not specifically say do not touch the dial.

I think it’s a tough learning lesson on my end, I should have been more clear but I thought I was.

Spruce · Nov 2, 2023

I think it looks very nice and, if it were mine, I’d wear it very happily - although I’d definitely put it on a more classically-styled strap

Jimbor · Nov 2, 2023

Spruce
I think it looks very nice and, if it were mine, I’d wear it very happily - although I’d definitely put it on a more classically-styled strap

Thanks Spruce, I appreciate the kind words. That is my plan! I actually have a guy in Toronto making me a olive green alligator strap with tapered padding. The previous owner put this strap on which I don’t love. I think the new one will be a much better combo!

Archer · Nov 2, 2023

Jimbor
I did not ask to specifically clean the dial. The majority of the debris was on the inside of the crystal and that is what I asked to have cleaned as you can see in the photo. To my detriment, I did not specifically say do not touch the dial.

I think it’s a tough learning lesson on my end, I should have been more clear but I thought I was.

The lighting between the two photos appears to be quite different, so not sure how much of the change is due to that.

But these dials are minefields sometimes - all you have to do is breathe on them and stuff can flake off, once the finish starts deteriorating.

No watchmaker is going to leave debris on the dial (if we did we would be reading about how crappy the watchmaker was for not cleaning the debris off), so the question to ask is, how did this person clean that off?

Jimbor · Nov 2, 2023

Archer
The lighting between the two photos appears to be quite different, so not sure how much of the change is due to that.

But these dials are minefields sometimes - all you have to do is breathe on them and stuff can flake off, once the finish starts deteriorating.

No watchmaker is going to leave debris on the dial (if we did we would be reading about how crappy the watchmaker was for not cleaning the debris off), so the question to ask is, how did this person clean that off?

That’s a good point. I am just getting into vintage omegas and this is a good learning. When I talked to him he did use a solvent of come kind, a solvent he uses for vintage watches that’s not harsh.

At the end of the day the majority of the lettering is there and the majority of people won’t notice unless they are a collector.

FSG · Nov 2, 2023

I say live with it… we all know servicing/restoring has its risks… it will never be « perfect » except if the initial is already in perfect condition in the first place.

Archer · Nov 2, 2023

Jimbor
That’s a good point. I am just getting into vintage omegas and this is a good learning. When I talked to him he did use a solvent of come kind, a solvent he uses for vintage watches that’s not harsh.

At the end of the day the majority of the lettering is there and the majority of people won’t notice unless they are a collector.

Did he mention the name? "Solvent H" perhaps?

Some watchmakers use this to clean dials - all dials. To me using any sort of solvent on a vintage dial is insane, but I know at least one watchmaker in the US that ruined a dial doing this - he sent it back to the customer without even mentioning it. That customer then contacted me about it...asked my view on what to do. This is the watch - all the printing was intact when it was sent to be serviced:

If the solvent is taking off printing, calling it "not harsh" seems a little bit odd.

Of course you need to clean debris off the dial, but taking shortcuts like dunking it in solvent is very risky. The safer but much more time consuming way is to use methods like these cleaning sticks to remove each piece of debris directly:

You pick each piece of debris off the dial individually:

So yeah, some guy taking a shortcut by dunking your vintage dial in solvent - yes you should be mad.

Jimbor · Nov 2, 2023

Archer
Did he mention the name? "Solvent H" perhaps?

Some watchmakers use this to clean dials - all dials. To me using any sort of solvent on a vintage dial is insane, but I know at least one watchmaker in the US that ruined a dial doing this - he sent it back to the customer without even mentioning it. That customer then contacted me about it...asked my view on what to do. This is the watch - all the printing was intact when it was sent to be serviced:

If the solvent is taking off printing, calling it "not harsh" seems a little bit odd.

Of course you need to clean debris off the dial, but taking shortcuts like dunking it in solvent is very risky. The safer but much more time consuming way is to use methods like these cleaning sticks to remove each piece of debris directly:

You pick each piece of debris off the dial individually:

So yeah, some guy taking a shortcut by dunking your vintage dial in solvent - yes you should be mad.

That is my thought exactly. I will ask him just so I know. It could have been much worse, so I guess I can live with it. But I’m still pretty frustrated.

What I gathered from your detailed response is that I should be sending you my watches from now on?…

I don’t plan on doing this anytime in the near future but in 5 or 10 years if I wanted to get the lettering re-done I would imagine sending it to omega would be the best option? I know there is cheaper routes, but I wanted to get your opinion.

Archer · Nov 2, 2023

Jimbor
That is my thought exactly. I will ask him just so I know. It could have been much worse, so I guess I can live with it. But I’m still pretty frustrated.

What I gathered from your detailed response is that I should be sending you my watches from now on?…

I don’t plan on doing this anytime in the near future but in 5 or 10 years if I wanted to get the lettering re-done I would imagine sending it to omega would be the best option? I know there is cheaper routes, but I wanted to get your opinion.

There are watchmakers that take their time and do things right - you just have to find them.

I have no idea what sort of quality Omega would do on a redial. Unfortunately it's only original once, which is why dials have to be treated with the utmost care.

sheepdoll · Nov 2, 2023

When solvent H is mentioned is that the same as what Art restores sometimes call enzyme solution No. 13?

This is also what the radium dial painters would use to point the brush. (as did other artists who did fine work.)

Or as the military would say spit polish?

And while some dials do look like lollypops I do not think I would want to consume one.

Jimbor · Nov 2, 2023

Archer
There are watchmakers that take their time and do things right - you just have to find them.

I have no idea what sort of quality Omega would do on a redial. Unfortunately it's only original once, which is why dials have to be treated with the utmost care.

That makes sense I’m always open to recommendations of trusted individuals. That’s why I wanted to join the forum!

Should I be mad? - Service took off letters on original dial

Jimbor

Canuck

nanjingcigaretes

Dan S

Jimbor

Jimbor

Jimbor

Davidt

daderaz

Jimbor

Spruce

Jimbor

Archer

Jimbor

FSG

Archer

Jimbor

Archer

sheepdoll

Jimbor

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