Thank you so much @Archer for sharing these details in this thread. I am very fortunate to live close enough to you to have you explain these things in person.

I find it interesting when people occasionally comment that a service should be <$200 per watch. I guess there are some watchmakers who do a good job for a very low price, but I suspect many do a simple clean+oil and send the watch out the door. There are probably others who do a similar detailed and thorough service but don't give any detailed feedback to the owner.

I know Al doesn't need a recommendation from me, but I can verify that his service is top-notch:
- he is open and honest from start to finish (no sugar-coating at any stage)
- he returns all parts that were replaced
- he gives a CD with full documentation of the service
- in my case, as I am able to meet him in person, he walks me through step-by-step every aspect of the service and explains everything in as much detail as I want. When I don't understand (which happens a lot), he takes the time to re-explain and even demonstrates when necessary.

Both watches he serviced illustrate that the normal "wind and wear with unknown service" definitely causes wear and damage to a watch. I understand for many they accept this for various reasons (too many watches, cost of service too high, will sell at some point and transfer any problems to someone else...) but I cannot wind and wear a watch when service condition is unknown. The same thing that draws me to these intricate mechanical devices is the same thing that makes me want to take care of them and have them in proper working order.

As far as the actual service he provided on each of these particular watches:

This one was sold with a very clear warning that watch was not serviced and would likely benefit from one. I paid a price accordingly and am very satisfied with it.

This one I actively searched for (after missing out on another lovely Omega 2639...). Several members here helped me locate it and graciously helped to partially negotiate a sale. During the course of negotiation, I realized the watch was being 'flipped' by someone who sells many watches via IG. It seemed the seller had bought the watch not too long ago for a much lower price than I was being asked to pay, but I was told "he had it serviced and switched stem..
so that's good". As a result, I agreed to pay far more for it than the seller had likely bought it for as a service adds significant value. Based on Al's detailed post, it is clear the watch had timing issues and was clearly not serviced.

(Note: in no way am I posting this to put blame on the members who helped me. I am very grateful for their assistance, and it's not their fault the seller blatantly lied to get a huge premium from me. I played the willing 'sucker' and paid double what I should have, 'caveat emptor'. I learned my lesson and this seller can obviously not be trusted. However, I might buy from them again, I just wouldn't believe a thing they say about something being serviced and I would definitely not pay top dollar. In the end, I'm very happy with the watch. I will enjoy it for many decades and in the long run it will be worth it for me.)

 

When I purchased a used watch I assume it needs service, regardless what the seller says. If the watch passes visual inspection (cleanliness, lubrication, etc.) and runs fine (rate, amplitude, positional variances), then that is a bonus for me. Of the 20 or so watches I've purchased none met these criteria. Most didn't even have lubrication...

 

Yes - I’m quickly learning the same thing.

I remember the “lemon” idea from economics, in that those with the best maintained item are least likely to want to sell and those with the worst are most likely. Gives another perspective on the several threads recently about private sellers vs dealers...

 

@Archer

Impressive restoration work and amazing photos.

 

I agree. He puts the “maker” in watchmaker. He doesn’t only oil, clean and replace parts, he is a craftsman who know how to repair, rebuild and make parts work again.

 

When it comes to more expensive vintage watches, always service. You'll be happy that you've serviced it when you still own it 10 years later and it's ticking perfectly!

 

Umm after 10 years it’ll need doing again. It’s not a one off deal you know.

 

Of course, that's what I meant. In many cases, it will (hopefully) operate fine for another 10 years after service

 

.. If MY watchmaker have said this, it's fine for me...

 

But what if I told you my watchmaker had said it? BTW, I don’t even have a watchmaker but you wouldn’t know that.

 

This is where a timing machine comes in handy. You buy the 'checked over by my watchmaker' or 'serviced by a retired Omega emplyee' watch, put it on the machine and when it turns out to have an amplitude of 180º and gains 2 minutes a day with a trace like Space Invaders game you can legitimately show the seller up for the bullshit artist they often are. Either it is serviced, with paperwork to back it up or it is not. Often it is best just to assume it is not and price on that basis. Chris made a good point way back in this thread that often it is good to seek out the watches that need love since they you can be 100% you have oversight on the work that is done. I often do this.

 

I started this thread as a comment on the all too common practice of selling many watches after owning for years without having serviced them.

Many responses have focused on why buying a watch unserviced is preferred since the buyer can then have it serviced by their own watchmaker and know the quality of the service. This is perfectly logical from a buyers perspective, assuming the buyer is someone who wants to purchase, care for and maintain a watch.

The point of the thread was to highlight how often people actually are not interested in ever getting a watch serviced at all. They simply wear it occasionally (ie: damage it further) and hope to flip it after some years of further deteriorated state and then sell (ie: pass on the further damages) to someone else. It is effectively musical chairs with each subsequent flipper planning to pass it on before it gets to such a state of disrepair that it stops working.

I have read a few honest responses from serial collectors who simply buy so many watches that servicing is just too expensive a proposition. I won’t judge this mindset, it simply isn’t me. The reason I love buying and owning watches is because of the amazing and intricate mechanical precision that makes these things tick.

I have a limited budget I’m willing to spend on watches, and the service is a mandatory inclusion in this budget. I could obviously buy even more watches if I chose not to service, but that would mean further damaging these delicate devices and I wouldn’t be happy with that.

Now, I am confident that the costs I’ve incurred recently in several watches was higher than normal as they were unserviced for long periods of time. Either original owners or serial flippers who didn’t take care of them, but the result was damage that required replacement and/or skilled work by @Archer . I don’t plan on servicing them every 5 years, but I also don’t plan on wearing them often. My plan is to service them every 10-15 years (based on # of uses) and see if this is okay to prevent a lot of damage / added cost st each subsequent service. As has been documented and explained very well by @Archer , the actual service interval needed will vary, I will learn through experience.

No judgement for anyone else, everyone has every right to do what they want with material possessions they buy... so the above outlines my personal plans only. YMMV.

 

Totally with you on this @gostang9. It would be great if there was something on a watch like the equivalent of an odometer on a car to tell how much the movement had been used, though obviously oils dry out even if the movement hasn't been used.

Actually, didn't Rado have something like this for the oil condition with their rotating anchor?

 

I simply cannot service every watch I buy, even if I wanted too. All my watchmakers put together would not cope. If I see symptoms, I'll service. Or rather I'll put it in the queue for servicing (there is always a queue) If I don't detect obvious symptoms I don't bother to put it in line. I know I might possibly be damaging it a little bit every time I wear a watch with unknown service history but I wear them so seldom, considering the long rotation, that I consider the little damage there might be to be neligible.