As most everyone is familiar, way, way back in ancient history, sometime before the Apple Watch but after the invention of sliced bread, a race was on. It was the race to create the first automatic chronograph and while fans of different brands will claim their favorite brand was the first one to create it, this thread is to celebrate Seiko's gift to the world, the 6139. A 17 jewel, automatic with a semi quickset day/date complication, this puppy knocks away at a frequency of 21,600 while giving its owners a 30 minute register. Caseback reference numbers date Seiko's version of the automatic chronograph to March 1969 and well...it's March so post your pictures and your favorite memories of your 6139's.

I'd go into detail on the variants, but I dont want to ruin the wrist shots other's will provide. Even all you wonderful people who celebrate Heur & Zenith are more than welcome to jump in if you like.

I'll kick it off with my 1970all original Seiko 6139-7010. For those who don't know, this was designed and worn by an elite Japanese special forces unit. Albeit I should find a better use for mine than monitoring what's on the grill, but I dont think DEVGRU is going to be calling me up anytime soon. Enjoy!

 

Here's a couple of sold pieces..

 

Pogue.

 

Beautiful piece! I have been searching for a clean example for a while now and i have to say yours is by far the cleanest example!

 

My favourite Seiko & a true classic

 

Pogue! This one is also my birthday watch, august 1971...

 

Another Pogue!

 

Everyone and their Pogues are making me jealous...may have to go on the hunt for one!

 

There's a rare 6139 in the FS section as we speak

Here's a proper Moon Watch - dated to July 1969, and the rarest combination of PROOF dial and Silver colour (without delving into JDM only models, perhaps):



Herein lies a dilemma with some old Seikos - look at the lume in the watch above; it's basically rotten. It doesn't degrade to a pleasing yellow, it just goes to a grubby gray.

Here it is, next to its younger brother, from October 1969.



So I did what many Omega collectors would freak out about, and had both dials and hands redone (after contemplating keeping one original and one spruced up).

In the final pic, they're switched round (Oct on left, Jul on right):



I like a nice Pogue, me



1-previous-owner blue-dial June 1970 on the left - being referred to in some circles as the Francois Cevert, as the former French F1 star was pictured wearing one, and a rather tidy March 71 yellow Pogue in the middle. The July 69 on the right, now no longer in my collection as a I swapped it for a 62MAS from a collector who had every other variant than the Silver 70M PROOF, and really wanted one...

 

You wouldn't get disappointed with one.

 

Absolutely. That's really a nice wrist experience.

 

1971 JDM issue 6139-7020 ( Resist with notched case). Love the way the champagne dial gives off a different color at times. Gotta love the UFO!

 

Race to produce the first automatic chronograph collection with three 2/69 produced 6139s



Correct Pogues and an incorrect Pogue.


For a single watch which represents the El Primero and Speedmaster to Seiko, lack of discrimination means it is still possible to get the most desirable versions relatively cheap. OTOH, as long as collectors are indiscriminate, no one will ever care about whether watches are correct or not.

 

Thanks for your thought @Ray916MN & @ewand ! I've got a good place to obtain a serviced and true Pogue. Being a purist I need to ensure that mine is correct and I'll be checking in with them and will post up anything I grab.

 

There's a good bit of info on SCWF and WristSushi if you want to go ferreting. There are lots of aftermarket parts out there which blur the line between "useful because you can't get originals any more, without paying $$$" (like crystals) and "made to look like the real thing but not", like dials, bezels, chapter rings etc.

Most obviously, most of the fake dials have fairly pronounced concentric circles in the subdial, and the originals just don't. If the reference on the dial (number on the lower right) ends in R then the 1 in the subdial should have a serif, and if ending in T then it shouldn't.

PROOF POGUES​

Also, if the dial says 70M PROOF then the watch should date from early 69 to late 70, (ie the first digit of the serial # would be 9 or 0, the 2nd is the month in the year), the caseback should be ideally be a horseshoe with WATERPOOF on the right side and there should be a notch on the front of the case above the crown …



… and the chrono hand should be 2-part



vs 1-part, below, and the movement will be a 6139A rather than 6139B.


RESIST POGUES
If the dial says 70M RESIST, then it should date from late 70 to mid 72, most probably won't have a notched case and will probably say WATER RESIST or, later, RESISTANT (rather than PROOF) on the case back. There might be some early RESIST dials fitted to notch case, 6139A movement watches so don't be too harsh if everything else checks out.

You see lots of supposedly all-original Pogues with fake 70M RESIST dials, 1976/77 serial numbers and aftermarket bezels (look at the 140 - the horizontal stroke of the 4 should almost be touching the 0 and the marker above should end between the 1 and the 4 not above the 140; if the marker under 250 reaches the end of the 2 then it's dodgy too). Approach with caution and with a bit of practice your spidey sense will spot most fakes a mile off.

 

This unfortunately is the kind of posting about the "Pogue" that I hate.

The nickname "Pogue" comes from the fact that Colonel William Pogue's yellow dial 6139-6005 was the first automatic chronograph flown in space. Over the course of nearly 10 years Seiko produced many variants of the 6139-600X, Seiko used 4 different movements, at least 3 different bracelets, two different case back styles, 2 different sweep hands, something like 5 different yellow dials and 6 different sub references (6000, 6001, 6002, 6005, 6007, 6009). To broadly refer to 6139-600Xs as Pogues, would be like saying all Speedmaster's are flown.

Omega collectors know, there are 3 Speedmaster references which were the "first" to be worn in space 105.003, 105.012 and 145.012. These are referred to as "flown" Speedmasters. Just as with Seiko production variances mean that within what are known as flown Speedmasters there are combinations of bezels, dials, cases, crowns, pushers, etc which are considered to be correct. A correct flown Speedmaster is generally worth 2 to 3 times more than a non-flown used Speedmaster.

As long as Seiko collectors decline to make the distinction between the 6139 variant that was specifically on Colonel Pogue's wrist and all the other yellow dial or other 6139-600X dial color variants and spend time worrying about fake dials, etc, Seiko Pogues willl never be seriously collectible. The lesson for Seiko fans on this Omega centered forum is to take Seikos as seriously as the folks here take Speedmasters and to realize, that when you are trying to authenticate a poorly specified reference/variant you are going to have a tough time being discriminating. The other lesson is, if you understand the exact variant that is most desirable and go after it, you are more likely to have something worthwhile owning, than if you pay the same money for something broadly the same.

Here's what Pogue's actual watch looked like



Does the dial on a "Pogue" you're looking at match? There is allot more detail to understanding what makes a correct Pogue. The good news is, it is much easier to understand what makes a Pogue correct, than to understand what makes a 6139-600X correct.

 

Do you think Moonwatch Only should only cover the 145.012 and 105.012 Speedmasters then? After all, none of the others made it to the moon and therefore referring to them as "moon watches" is clearly wrong. What must Omega be thinking?

"Pogue" means any variant of the 6139-600x. Like it or not, that's what it has become.

 

So the way you see it, the Pogue was the 1st automatic chronograph? Why doesn't the reference material you posted cover the Speed Timer 6139-6000 variant if that is so? On a thread ostensibly focused on the 1st automatic chronograph are you trying to assert the Pogue was first, while not providing the reference material associated with the watches which were the first 6139s Seiko produced? If the Pogue was the "first" then what about the 6139-6010? The earliest Seiko automatic chronograph so far found was a 6130-6010 with a January '69 production date. Is the Speed Timer 6139-6000 not a Pogue? What exactly is a Pogue in your definition?

What must Omega be thinking? Omega is thinking I want to separate you from your money. Doesn't the milking of the Speedmaster make this obvious?

 

So, the ridiculous thing is that you're both right. @Ray916MN has a point about being specific. The version the Col wore was actually the 6139-6002 (not the 6005) and those are going to be more sought after than the other variants (say the "Cevert" or 6005 or what have you).

On the flip side, @ewand is spot on too. Any of the 6139's with a yellow dial are going to be called Pogues. Even Michael at Fratello goes on to note "Seiko collectors, while being sticklers for originality like any watch group, have been fairly generous by calling any yellow-dialed 6139 a “Pogue” and when we discuss the market, you’ll note that there’s not a huge amount of price variation amongst the models."

So you're both right.

As for me, I want the 6139-6002. I apprecaite your point @ewand about parts and paying out the nose, but in this case I'll pony up...cause...well, I have a watch problem

 

One of those and one of those