Hi everyone

So I've been working up to buying one of these this year, and trying to understand genuine vs fakes/frankens..
I've come across this one, seller says it was last serviced 10 years ago, was never worn for diving, and that the hands were changed at that service. Looking at it, and from what I've been able to learn, I think the dial and bezel are original and correct. I don't have any movement photos.

I am worried about the crown though, it has what looks like 5 teeth, when I understand it should have 6-8. If the wrong crown was fitted at that service, how easy would this be to fix (assuming I can find one)? Or would there have been damage to the crown tube/stem? Also any other comments / observations would be welcome - its available for not much money, so I'm willing to take a chance, and wear its a beater.

Thanks in advance

 

I'm afraid that's a modern reproduction (fake) dial.
The lume surrounds look cheap but the major 'tell' is the rectangular date window; the original has rounded corners.

I never really worked out how to distinguish the fake versus original bezels.

With the crown I don't think you count the rows of teeth but rather the gaps between the groups of teeth. So this one has six.
Been a long time since I studied these regularly so do a bit more research yourself. I'm right about that dial though

And never take the current bidding price on an eBay one as any kind of proof of originality. The fake ones often go for more than originals; which really annoys me. People like shiny

 

Thanks - I hadn't realised that "tell" - I'd only really looked at the "-" at the bottom right 8009 text. so I've learnt something new today!

 

No worries.
Looks like I was wrong about the crown and you were right.
http://seikodiver.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/how-to-spot-fake-seiko-6105-81108119.html

 

It's Ok - we swapped new knowledge!

Think I'll pass on this - one "fault" I could have lived with/corrected - but hands, dial and crown is too much...

 

Here is a good Seiko forum with lots of good info.
http://www.thewatchsite.com/

 

Great - thank you!

 

Another good resource is Spencer Klein. He repairs mostly vintage Seiko's. He does a video review of each watch that comes in for repair. You can learn lots from watching them. I did.
https://www.youtube.com/user/spkslk

 

Bezel I think is also aftermarket.

 

Hands are also after market (very white lume and rounded edges to the traffic light on the second hand). The caseback has also been polished.
There is some debate about the number of ridges on the crown, with some examples of genuine crowns with less ridges found, but mostly stick to the less than 6 = aftermarket rule. They're unlikely to have damaged the tube though so can be replaced at a cost.
Personally, I'd wait for a better example.

 

Thanks @erpin9 and @tritto... seller was adamant that he hadn’t changed anything since he bought it in 2007, at which time he had it serviced. So either itcame like this or his watchmaker changed the dial, hands, crown and bezel... either way I’ll pass!

 

Here is mine for comparison. I always thought it was correct, I might be proven wrong. The data window is rounded however.

 

Ferik, yours is legit. That's a great looking piece, too. This one was my dad's, I inherited last year when he passed and had to fix it up a little. The picture's bad quality, the relume I had done doesn't spread over the indices, it just looks that way in the pic.

OP, if you are serious about looking for a 6105 (either the -8000/9 or the 8110/9) I suggest reading through the Seiko Citizen Watch Forum's many, many posts about these watches. I recently bought a 6105-8000 (2nd picture). They are amazing quality timepieces; my -8119 keeps +2 seconds per day when worn regularly after its service, and it hadn't been serviced in over 35 years when I finally took ownership of it (my dad paid less than $100 for it in 1975, and to him a $250 service was more than it was worth to him, so he put it in his drawer for me to find...). The biggest problem with these was the crown design, where the gasket was sealed inside the crown with a washer (the entire crown was designed to be replaced at service); those gaskets dry up and water gets in through the crown. A lot of these watches have it and "pristine" versions are not easy to find. Those with water intrusion will have a black "gunk" around the hour indices and in the lume. Their popularity has gone up, as well, which makes those good examples even more sought after.

Spend some time researching the differences between models, especially years and proof/resist dials. I bought my 6105-8000 to use it as a donor movement in the event my dad's ever craps out (it happens to be a semi-rare 6105B inside the 6105-8000 case; most of the -8000s had the 6105A non-hacking movement).

Tritto (above commenter) knows his stuff and is active on thewatchsite.com (Seiko Citizen Watch Forum).

Good luck!

 

Thanks @JonAsh6105 - that's really helpful - and lovely watch!

I have a newer Seiko which I use for diving. A dive guide was wearing an old Seiko (in the bar afterwards), he said it was a 6105, and I really liked the look of it... guess I never thought anyone would fake a Seiko until I saw the prices nice old ones seem to achieve!! So the hunt continues...

 

Here photos of my two ones (8110 and 8119) for comparing. The dials, hands and crown are originals. For bezel is hard to tell. Be also careful of glass, since there is a lot of aftermarket, but you can still get a NOS on EBay . More hard one is with the crown. An official Seiko watchmaker trashed mine away at doing revision with excuse it is not sealing anymore and put some other not original. It took me 8 months and 170$ to get one used one and than additional 100 for another watchmaker (a good one) to take it apart and putting new seal, since the original seal was completely hard and the crown didn’t slide over the tube of the housing . So could be costly. However also after revision and some changed parts (Seiko NOS) the amplitude is still quite low around 200deg. New ones they had also quite low amplitude around 230-240. They are both between -10 and -25s/day, what is ok for me.

 

Oh sorry, I think I put photos only from 8110. I will do the photos of the other one when I will be back home an post it

 

Now corrected ...

 

Nice one fella !

 

It looks made up IMO

 

Well, to round this off - to my surprise, my wife bought me one for Valentine’s Day - here it is, a late model I think, 75/76.. It also came in a funky box - not sure if it’s the correct one but I like it...