SEEKING INFORMATION ON THESE 2 WATCHES PLEASE

Kek25 · Aug 30, 2019

I purchased these 2 watches 3 years ago. Didn't know anything about Longine wristwatches or vintage wristwatches in general. I bought the flareback because I liked the design/looks and I bought the 994-4194 25 jewel because I thought it might be rare. I don't have a photo of the 994-4194 movement but my watchmaker did expose the movement and confirmed it is authentic and in very good condition. The discoloration on the case back of the 994 is a plastic wrapper that was on the watch when I purchased it, so I left it be. I paid $500 total for both watches and just looking for some information on them in terms of condition, collectibility, etc.

Thanks.

airansun · Aug 30, 2019

Mine says hello.

I think yours was redialed, based on the printing on the dial.

I love mine and used to wear it all the time 30 years ago (!). Very reliable and accurate, in my experience.

I don’t think these are particularly valuable. I can’t speak to the other watch, but I figure mine, also 14k gold, is worth maybe $1,000. I think the redial hurts though.

STANDY · Aug 30, 2019

They look good for the price paid. Both look in good condition.

First one looks good ( not a overly collectable model but still a nice watch )

Second has several service marks on the case which is a good sign of a looked after watch. ( need better photos of dial to see if it has not been redialled at some point )

Kek25 · Aug 30, 2019

Thanks for the replies.

Nice looking 9lt, airansun.

I'll post some better photos of the 9lt dial when I retrieve it from the deposit box, Standy. The photos I used were from the original seller's ad.

I appreciate both of you taking time to respond.

Best regards.

Dan S · Aug 30, 2019

Perfectly fine watches to wear and enjoy, but neither is particularly desirable for collectors. The first is a gold-plated watch to wear for dress occasions, but not collectible. The second would not be of interest to most collectors because of condition issues (repainted dial, overpolished case), but the case has some value as gold. The price was about right IMO.

Syrte · Aug 31, 2019

Agree with previous comments, second dial definitely refinished.
I would just add the first watch is probably 1970s or later - Longines could tell you the exact date iff you send them pics and movement serial.
Second one is US market (Wittnauer) from the 1940s.

Kek25 · Aug 31, 2019

Thanks again for the additional information. What makes the first watch undesirable to collectors? Is it the age?

I thought it would be more collectible because of the movement's history as it relates to the "thin" styling.

Dan S
Perfectly fine watches to wear and enjoy, but neither is particularly desirable for collectors. The first is a gold-plated watch to wear for dress occasions, but not collectible. The second would not be of interest to most collectors because of condition issues (repainted dial, overpolished case), but the case has some value as gold. The price was about right IMO.

Dan S · Aug 31, 2019

The first watch is gold-plated and also not from the most collectible era of Longines.

Kek25 · Aug 31, 2019

Dan S
The first watch is gold-plated and also not from the most collectible era of Longines.

Thanks, Dan.

Keith

Kek25 · Aug 31, 2019

I recall reading an article before purchasing the 994 (round watch) that triggered my interest in the movement. The article indicated that the 900 series were the last movements actually produced by Longienes before the right to produce them was sold to another company. The procuring company relabeled the movement and used it in higher end watches in the 80s and maybe 90s. The 900 series movement was the thinnest movement made with date and center seconds at 2.96 mm. The 994 didnt have the center seconds. According to another source I read, the 900 series movements were full rotor automatics with 2 barrels -- 1 fixed and 1 with a slip bridle. The rotor winds the spring with the slip bridle and that spring winds the fixed mainspring. There was also a reference indicating that the 25 jewel version was rarer than other variants. I didn't know how many jewels my watch had until I took it to my watchmaker to open it up. It ended up being the 25 jewel variant. I'm surprised these aren't more attractive as a collector piece, if nothing else, for being the last movements actually manufactured by Longienes and the engineering resulting in the thinnest movement available for its time. Maybe time will change concerning its collectibility.

Syrte · Sep 1, 2019

People who like vintage watches usually like watches from what is considered the golden era of mechanical movements. This one came later.

There is no right and wrong about it— it’s a matter of taste and fashion, and maybe in some years people will change their minds --or not.
40 years ago no one cared about art nouveau or art deco furniture and artefacts and they could be obtained in local auction houses for the price of a sandwich.

However there is zero certainty in how these things evolve. Which is why you should only buy watches you like, not to invest, if they have no value at least you must be happy wearing them.

Kek25 · Sep 1, 2019

Syrte
People who like vintage watches usually like watches from what is considered the golden era of mechanical movements. This one came later.

There is no right and wrong about it— it’s a matter of taste and fashion, and maybe in some years people will change their minds --or not.
40 years ago no one cared about art nouveau or art deco furniture and artefacts and they could be obtained in local auction houses for the price of a sandwich.

However there is zero certainty in how these things evolve. Which is why you should only buy watches you like, not to invest, if they have no value at least you must be happy wearing them.

All great points. One of the reasons I buy the watches is, indeed, because I like the way they look. But I do buy them as an investment as well. Because I have 40 watches (pocket and wrist) in my collection, I am not able to wear many of them. From the investment side, I "hedge" the purchases by paying as close to gold value as I can (and often times below spot) for the solid gold examples and below market value for the non-gold examples. So far, I've been fortunate to get a return of 15-25 percent on investment when I've decided to sell some examples. Better than returns on most other investments.

I know I'm unorthodox in the manner in which I approach my interest in watches. Although I have many nice pocket watches from a true collectors standpoint, i prefer re-worked dial/polished case examples of the wristwatches. It has become evident to me that there is a sector of the market that appreciates these re-worked examples and are just as passionate about their desires for such examples as collectors of purely vintage examples.

I believe that years from now, due to the limited availability of pure vintage examples, the re-worked dial/polished case examples will become accepted by collectors. It may not happen in my lifetime, but 60 years from now, who knows. Maybe a legacy for my grandchildren? Maybe not.

STANDY · Sep 1, 2019

Waiting for redialled and polished watches to become popular wouldn’t be the investment model I would continue if I were you.
And the sector that appreciates these you mention above usually only buys one then ends up here to learn the error of their first purchase.

Kek25 · Sep 1, 2019

STANDY
Waiting for redialled and polished watches to become popular wouldn’t be the investment model I would continue if I were you.
And the sector that appreciates these you mention above usually only buys one then ends up here to learn the error of their first purchase.

I think there is a distinction between watch collectors and watch wearers for lack of a better term. Although collectors may also wear their watches, wearers don't necessarily collect. From a pocket watch perspective. I am a collector.

But from the number of re-dialed and polished case wristwatches that are transparently for sale and are sold (purchased by those who know what they are purchasing) I don't believe that sector is going away any time soon. And I would hazard to guess, admittedly without verifiable data, that a majority of those who have purchased re-dialed/polished case watches don't regret their purchase decision unless they are at the beginning stages of collecting and were unprepared from an educational perspective before making their purchase or misinformed by the seller. Now, I may be off on assuming collectors will one day accept re-dialed/polished case wristwatches, but that doesn't change my investment model for those examples. Maybe just won't expand the market with collectors in years to come.

I'm not bashing the collector, and I understand the need/desire to preserve that sector. As stated above, I collect pocket watches. However, I haven't seen much difference in the margins between selling a collector-piece pocket watch or re-dialed/polished wristwatch, except for the very rare examples.

Syrte · Sep 1, 2019

My attitude is to refuse answering questions for other people’s investment purposes.

I don’t see why I should give away information for free for other people to make money, when the knowledge was acquired through hours and hours and years of study and examination of hundreds of watches on the open market, or discussions with my watchmaker about repairs for which I pay.

I’m fine sharing info with dealers however, when they contribute to other people’s knowledge, as many of them do and have chosen their job out of passion.

Kek25 · Sep 1, 2019

I understand your point of view on that issue and respect it. I am up front on my motives and ideas, because I believe in being up front with people instead of obtaining information under false pretenses. Some folks like it and some folks don't

I'm certain that there will come a time when I am in the market for a truly vintage wristwatch for myself.

Reading through the various sub forums on this site is giving me a newfound appreciation for them.

SEEKING INFORMATION ON THESE 2 WATCHES PLEASE

Kek25

airansun

STANDY

Kek25

Dan S

Syrte

Kek25

Dan S

Kek25

Kek25

Syrte

Kek25

STANDY

Kek25

Syrte

Kek25

Similar threads

Seeking information on Ladies Omega gold watch

Seeking information on ref: BA 791.8690, CAL 1350?

Seeking Information and Guidance on Omega De Ville Tourbillon 5910.30.01

Newbie seeking information on vintage

Seeking information on UG Ref: 104.41.860

Need info on these watches please!