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Seeking advice on vintage Sturmanskie

  1. Strangedream

    Strangedream Jan 3, 2020

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    Hi everyone,
    Since I got my Speedmaster Moonwatch I've been into collecting space watches. I'm too broke to afford a 321 Speedy right now, so I'm eyeballing a genuine Sturmanskie. After some initially research I found out that Gagarin most likely wore a Sturmanskie 17j (33mm) on his first space flight. Still according to my research, the 17j was produced from 1954 to early 1960's.

    I found a "full set" Sturmanskie on the bay for US$850, however I have doubt about the legitimacy of the box and paper. The paper is dated from 1952 - 2 years prior the 17j - and the paper number doesn't match the movement number. The watch looks genuine on the other hand. So here are my questions:

    1) Can you confirm this is not a full set, but rather a repackaged unit?
    2) This listing has been on eBay for couple months now, what price would you recommend for this (with/without box/paper)?
    3) Any other remarks/observations?

    I'm new to vintage watches so thanks for your help!
     
    s-l1600.jpg s-l1600-1.jpg s-l1601.jpg
    Edited Jan 3, 2020
  2. wagudc

    wagudc Jan 4, 2020

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    I have done research on this myself, but it seems there is a ton of fraken / fakes out there. I gave up on the search. I would be very skeptical. $850 is a lot for such a watch. I have a couple of Russian watches and the "expensive" ones are $75.
     
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  3. wagudc

    wagudc Jan 4, 2020

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    Check out this thread. Some folks there read Russian, perhaps some could weigh in on the paperwork.

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/anyone-speaks-russian.94358/
     
  4. krogerfoot

    krogerfoot Jan 4, 2020

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    WUS user mroatman has been an invaluable source of information for Russian watch enthusiasts. It's been a few years since I've communicated with him, but I've always found him to be a generously knowledgeable correspondent.
     
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  5. GordonL

    GordonL Jan 4, 2020

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    The box and "passport " look genuine to me but they don't match the watch. The watch looks genuine but the crown is a later replacement. I don't think its worth the asking price.
     
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  6. Strangedream

    Strangedream Jan 4, 2020

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    Thanks, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. I suspected the paper must have been from a 15 jewel Sturmanskie. And now that you mention it, I can see how the crown looks much more recent than the case itself. I will pass then.
     
  7. GordonL

    GordonL Jan 4, 2020

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    The box and papers could be for any of the watches made by the 1st Moscow Watch Factory in the early 50s. I'm pretty sure the sturmanskies originally had "onion" style crowns. When I'm at my computer later I'll post a pic of one for reference.
     
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  8. GordonL

    GordonL Jan 4, 2020

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    I did some research on Sturmanskies a few years ago and here's what I found. I see from these pics that I may have been wrong about the crown, but the one in your pic does look much newer than the rest of the case.
    info.jpg

    15_left_17_right.jpg

    15_left_17_right back.jpg

    anti shock on 17.jpg

    jewels.jpg

     
    Edited Jan 4, 2020
  9. Strangedream

    Strangedream Jan 5, 2020

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    That's one of the article I came across. Still a very good source of information nonetheless and thanks for sharing it here! From the picture the movement and the dial/hands seem correct at least.

    By the way, did you get a Sturmanskie in the end? How was your experience with it?
     
  10. SpeedyPhill

    SpeedyPhill asked ages ago but no longer interested Jan 5, 2020

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    Well expect these days to pay US $ 850.00 for a correct Strela "Arrow" chronograph...
    Here's a Sturmanskie recently offered at a "space auction" but it was a 15 jewel version whille Yuri Gagarin wore a 17 jewel version
    .
    15_Sturmanskie.jpg
     
  11. SpeedyPhill

    SpeedyPhill asked ages ago but no longer interested Jan 5, 2020

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    For what's worth... some Sturmanskie wristwatch slides from my spaceflight lecture...
    .
    MWU_Sturmanskie.jpg
     
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  12. wagudc

    wagudc Jan 5, 2020

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    This is true.
     
  13. GordonL

    GordonL Jan 5, 2020

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    No I never did get a Sturmanskie. I have a couple of mid -1950s Pobedas which look like they use the same movement as the 15j Sturmanskies, and they are both fine.

     
  14. w154

    w154 Jan 5, 2020

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  15. GordonL

    GordonL Jan 5, 2020

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