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Seeking advice on vintage Sturmanskie

Strangedream
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Hi everyone,
Since I got my Speedmaster Moonwatch I've been into collecting space watches. I'm too broke to afford a 321 Speedy right now, so I'm eyeballing a genuine Sturmanskie. After some initially research I found out that Gagarin most likely wore a Sturmanskie 17j (33mm) on his first space flight. Still according to my research, the 17j was produced from 1954 to early 1960's.

I found a "full set" Sturmanskie on the bay for US$850, however I have doubt about the legitimacy of the box and paper. The paper is dated from 1952 - 2 years prior the 17j - and the paper number doesn't match the movement number. The watch looks genuine on the other hand. So here are my questions:

1) Can you confirm this is not a full set, but rather a repackaged unit?
2) This listing has been on eBay for couple months now, what price would you recommend for this (with/without box/paper)?
3) Any other remarks/observations?

I'm new to vintage watches so thanks for your help!
Edited:
 
s-l1600.jpg s-l1600-1.jpg s-l1601.jpg
wagudc
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I have done research on this myself, but it seems there is a ton of fraken / fakes out there. I gave up on the search. I would be very skeptical. $850 is a lot for such a watch. I have a couple of Russian watches and the "expensive" ones are $75.
 
wagudc
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Strangedream Strangedream
Hi everyone,
Since I got my Speedmaster Moonwatch I've been into collecting space watches. I'm too broke to afford a 321 Speedy right now, so I'm eyeballing a genuine Sturmanskie. After some initially research I found out that Gagarin most likely wore a Sturmanskie 17j (33mm) on his first space flight. Still according to my research, the 17j was produced from 1954 to early 1960's.

I found a "full set" Sturmanskie on the bay for US$850, however I have doubt about the legitimacy of the box and paper. The paper is dated from 1952 - 2 years prior the 17j - and the paper number doesn't match the movement number. The watch looks genuine on the other hand. So here are my questions:

1) Can you confirm this is not a full set, but rather a repackaged unit?
2) This listing has been on eBay for couple months now, what price would you recommend for this (with/without box/paper)?
3) Any other remarks/observations?

I'm new to vintage watches so thanks for your help!

Check out this thread. Some folks there read Russian, perhaps some could weigh in on the paperwork.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/anyone-speaks-russian.94358/
 
krogerfoot
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WUS user mroatman has been an invaluable source of information for Russian watch enthusiasts. It's been a few years since I've communicated with him, but I've always found him to be a generously knowledgeable correspondent.
 
GordonL
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The box and "passport " look genuine to me but they don't match the watch. The watch looks genuine but the crown is a later replacement. I don't think its worth the asking price.
krogerfoot krogerfoot
WUS user mroatman has been an invaluable source of information for Russian watch enthusiasts. It's been a few years since I've communicated with him, but I've always found him to be a generously knowledgeable correspondent.
 
Strangedream
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GordonL GordonL
The box and "passport " look genuine to me but they don't match the watch. The watch looks genuine but the crown is a later replacement. I don't think its worth the asking price.
Thanks, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. I suspected the paper must have been from a 15 jewel Sturmanskie. And now that you mention it, I can see how the crown looks much more recent than the case itself. I will pass then.
 
GordonL
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The box and papers could be for any of the watches made by the 1st Moscow Watch Factory in the early 50s. I'm pretty sure the sturmanskies originally had "onion" style crowns. When I'm at my computer later I'll post a pic of one for reference.
 
GordonL
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I did some research on Sturmanskies a few years ago and here's what I found. I see from these pics that I may have been wrong about the crown, but the one in your pic does look much newer than the rest of the case.
info.jpg 15_left_17_right.jpg 15_left_17_right back.jpg anti shock on 17.jpg jewels.jpg


Strangedream Strangedream
Thanks, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. I suspected the paper must have been from a 15 jewel Sturmanskie. And now that you mention it, I can see how the crown looks much more recent than the case itself. I will pass then.
Edited:
 
Strangedream
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GordonL GordonL
I did some research on Sturmanskies a few years ago and here's what I found. I see from these pics that I may have been wrong about the crown, but the one in your pic does look much newer than the rest of the case.

That's one of the article I came across. Still a very good source of information nonetheless and thanks for sharing it here! From the picture the movement and the dial/hands seem correct at least.

By the way, did you get a Sturmanskie in the end? How was your experience with it?
 
SpeedyPhill
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wagudc wagudc
I have done research on this myself, but it seems there is a ton of fraken / fakes out there. I gave up on the search. I would be very skeptical. $850 is a lot for such a watch. I have a couple of Russian watches and the "expensive" ones are $75.
Well expect these days to pay US $ 850.00 for a correct Strela "Arrow" chronograph...
Here's a Sturmanskie recently offered at a "space auction" but it was a 15 jewel version whille Yuri Gagarin wore a 17 jewel version
.
15_Sturmanskie.jpg
 
SpeedyPhill
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For what's worth... some Sturmanskie wristwatch slides from my spaceflight lecture...
.
MWU_Sturmanskie.jpg
 
wagudc
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SpeedyPhill SpeedyPhill
Well expect these days to pay US $ 850.00 for a correct Strela "Arrow" chronograph...
.
15_Sturmanskie.jpg

This is true.
 
GordonL
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No I never did get a Sturmanskie. I have a couple of mid -1950s Pobedas which look like they use the same movement as the 15j Sturmanskies, and they are both fine.

Strangedream Strangedream
That's one of the article I came across. Still a very good source of information nonetheless and thanks for sharing it here! From the picture the movement and the dial/hands seem correct at least.

By the way, did you get a Sturmanskie in the end? How was your experience with it?
 
NikolShep
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GordonL GordonL
I did some research on Sturmanskies a few years ago and here's what I found. I see from these pics that I may have been wrong about the crown, but the one in your pic does look much newer than the rest of the case.
info.jpg 15_left_17_right.jpg 15_left_17_right back.jpg anti shock on 17.jpg jewels.jpg
Many thanks for the useful information, GordonL, especially the page with comparison of the two types. I was wondering if the description of type-2 was continuing on the second page of the document you attached. Could you, please, check that? Thanks!
 
Professor
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GordonL GordonL
No I never did get a Sturmanskie. I have a couple of mid -1950s Pobedas which look like they use the same movement as the 15j Sturmanskies, and they are both fine.
Apparently the movement used in the 15J Sturmankie is the Pobeda movement with an added hacking feature.
IIRC Gagarin was given a 15J version while a cadet the 17J version, which he wore in space, was a later development.

I have four 15J civilian Pobedas three are very accurate. My NOS Soviet era example was accurate to within 2 seconds per week in a 28 day test run, so long as left dial up between windings.
 
GordonL
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NikolShep NikolShep
Many thanks for the useful information, GordonL, especially the page with comparison of the two types. I was wondering if the description of type-2 was continuing on the second page of the document you attached. Could you, please, check that? Thanks!
I am sorry - here is page 2. I'm not sure why I didn't post this the first time!
info_2.jpg
 
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