Seconds track in 1/3’s not 1/5’s...?

inchpincher · Sep 7, 2018

Firstly forgive me if this is covered elsewhere I’ve searched but nothing’s flagged up but I could be using the wrong terms.

Can someone clarify the thinking behind changing the seconds subdivisions into thirds instead of fifths as seen on the FOIS reissue and now the Hodinkee MK40 homage?
It must be purely a design decision to look less busy right? Have they geared the 1861 chrono hand to run at 21,600 bph instead of 36,000 so it hits the markers and therefore is considerably less smooth?

The worst for me though as someone who has an interest in engineering is a third of a second is a recurring number, it makes me twitch and I wouldn’t say I’m particularly OCD.

Is it just me?

ext1 · Sep 7, 2018

@inchpincher Now you've done it, I'll never be able to look at that Hodinkee LE the same way anymore. 🤦
In a similar vein when the Autavia cup re-edition was released before the minute counter tracks weren't subdivided accurately. 🤦

dennisthemenace · Sep 7, 2018

I think the Gemini 1V was the first speedmastet dial with this spacing.

Kmart · Sep 7, 2018

The beat rate for the 861/1861 is indeed 21,600 bph, so it actually makes more sense to divide the markers into thirds rather than into fifths.

The Speedmaster never ran at 36,000 bph... as far as I know the only chronograph movement that does is the Zenith El Primero.

padders · Sep 7, 2018

The 321 was at 18kbph though and the dial design was set back then with markers at fifth of a second points. It has been wrong ever since they upped the beat rate on the 861/1861 which does 6 increments instead of 5 AFAIK. You could have 5 or 2 intermediate markers to make the 861 chrono hand hit the them, they chose 2. The Moonwatch didn’t hit the markers properly from 1968 to circa 2005 when the first LEs with 2 intermediate indices were rolled out...

inchpincher · Sep 7, 2018

Unless I’m mistaken you can gear the chrono hand to run at whatever bph you like (within reason).

Kmart · Sep 7, 2018

inchpincher
Unless I’m mistaken you can gear the chrono hand to run at whatever bph you like (within reason).

Huh?

padders
The Moonwatch didn’t hit the markers properly from 1968 to circa 2005...

Still doesn't.

inchpincher · Sep 7, 2018

Ok I think I’ve realised where I’m going wrong, you can’t in fact have the chrono hand moving at a faster rate, I’ve just checked my Speedy and it moves in 1/3’s even though the track is in 1/5s. I was blissfully unaware of this and now you’ve (I’ve) ruined my day.

padders · Sep 7, 2018

Kmart
Huh?

Still doesn't.

True but they started to fix it then on new releases.

Kmart · Sep 7, 2018

inchpincher
Ok I think I’ve realised where I’m going wrong, you can’t in fact have the chrono hand moving at a faster rate, I’ve just checked my Speedy and it moves in 1/3’s even though the track is in 1/5s. I was blissfully unaware of this and now you’ve (I’ve) ruined my day.

Once seen, it cannot be unseen. 😉

looselywound · Jun 16, 2020

Interestingly (well... for those of us that find such things interesting):

The 2003-2017 Professional Moonphase has the 1/3 second markers, although the ‘80s speedymoon had the “wrong” 1/5.

My cal 3303 Broad Arrow has 1/4 markers to match its 8 ticks per second! The later 1861 Broad arrow reissue has the usual mismatched 1/5 as does the trilogy.

padders · Jun 17, 2020

looselywound
Interestingly (well... for those of us that find such things interesting):

The 2003-2017 Professional Moonphase has the 1/3 second markers, although the ‘80s speedymoon had the “wrong” 1/5.

My cal 3303 Broad Arrow has 1/4 markers to match its 8 ticks per second! The later 1861 Broad arrow reissue has the usual mismatched 1/5 as does the trilogy.

I posted this about it elsewhere a while back which touches on the 33X3 versions too but I wasn’t aware they changed the moonphase dial. Good spot.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/str...peedy-will-be-made-in-ss.107285/#post-1406344

and

https://omegaforums.net/threads/fake-speedmaster-from-reputable-seller.103977/#post-1361070

Welcome to the forum. Be aware that your screen name may attract some raised eyebrows. A former member known as fullywound was banned and fell into disgrace.

looselywound · Jun 17, 2020

padders
I posted this about it elsewhere a while back which touches on the 33X3 versions too but I wasn’t aware they changed the moonphase dial. Good spot.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/str...peedy-will-be-made-in-ss.107285/#post-1406344

and

https://omegaforums.net/threads/fake-speedmaster-from-reputable-seller.103977/#post-1361070

Welcome to the forum. Be aware that your screen name may attract some raised eyebrows. A former member known as fullywound was banned and fell into disgrace.

Ah I wasn't aware, thanks for the heads up-- I hope that member didn't ruin the reputation of the entire -wound clan 😀

Looking through the Moonwatch Only e-book, and also here it's funny how Omega switched back and forth between 1/5 and 1/3 for the various Apollo anniversary editions. I guess they just went with whatever they thought looked best with each dial. Although that doesn't explain why the first gold speedmaster had the 1/5 dial and the newest, nearly identical one, has 1/3:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/gold-omega-speedmaster-nixon-just-because

The 866 and 1866 based moonphases also have 1/5 or 1/3..... except.... check out the "silver moonphase" 3575.30.

On the Omega website (https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-speedmaster-professional-moonwatch-35753000) we have 1/5 second subdivisions.

omega-speedmaster-professional-moonwatch-35753000-l.png

But the same reference (from an OF FS post):

and every other photo I've found of the actual watch, shows that... no, it actually has an *1/6* seconds track! In fact it's the only reference I've been able to find with 1/6 second markings.

padders · Jun 17, 2020

Interesting that. I hadn't noticed one before with a 1/6s track, I had assumed it would look too busy but it looks like they tried it at least once.