All things being equal (watch only - no box/papers) would you rather have a 16610LV or a 3569.31? Both appealing watches that are rising in collectibility. Would not having paperwork be more of a hit for one particular model over another? I’m curious as to people’s opinions on having to pick between two great watches assuming that they’re selling in a close price range.

 

It would help if you posted pics of both watches. I only know what one of those reference numbers refers to.

 

Kermit’s with no papers are scary. Make sure you know how to Authenticate one. First step is making sure it has a maxi dial. Then font on bezel and there are at least 2 variations. If those are correct you contact Rolex to verify

 

I was trying to copy some generic pics from the net but having issues right now. These aren’t two specific watches I’m looking at but rather a question on the models as a whole.

I realize Kermit’s can be altered subs but assuming they came from a reputable seller I’ve seen earlier models (pointed 4’s not flat ones) for around 9-10k without papers. The earliest Y series ones from 2003-4 are selling for over 20k. The pandas can be faked too. Perhaps the dealers could at least vet them by serial numbers.

 

Yeah but go on eBay and 1/2 of the Kermit’s are conversions. Not really as much of a problem with Apollo Le’s and easier to verify considering the caseback is unique and not found on conversions.


As for flat 4... meh I’m not paying the premium but I would pay for the plain rehaut.

 

Personally I would go with the LV but box & papers are A must have . There is quite a difference in prices between Flat four & non Flat four inserts & some of the dial Swiss made markings . But I'm happy with my V serial with rehaut as it combines the best of the older 5 digit subs & some of the newer improvements , like SEL bracelets ,maxi dial & rehaut .

 

No Kermit is scary.



The use of the name for a Rolex 16610LV notwithstanding.

 

The box isn’t a huge deal for me because you can buy one all day long. Papers are nice and I usually want to get them but sometimes not having them makes the watch more affordable/obtainable. Once the watch is serviced by RSC it’ll have service papers which would alleviate the concern of an altered watch. Similarly you could request replacement warranty cards for the Omega LE that would alleviate any concerns on that front.

 

When I was at Alfa Romeo GB the Factory sent us quite a lot of green Alfasuds, which we knew as Kermits, and they were no more entertaining on the road than he was on the tv. It was very difficult to get any dealers to take these, and we asked Alfa Romeo SpA not to build any more Kermits in RHD, (this being in the days before the pull-system manufacturing model). Italy being Italy and Italians being Italian, what happened? . . . within a few months we received a batch of about fifty of 'em. I think we maybe got rid of them as a job lot to Cyprus. Note: Alfasuds of the era did not enjoy quite the same quality of build as a Rolex.

 

Looks like an Allegro down the side

 

Now that is harsh!

 

Harsh but seemingly quite true , or as it was better known , the Austin All Aggro . This article was originally posted on the wonder web & sums up the well deserved title ,
Austin Allegro voted worst car in Britain

There are currently 1,000 Allegros still registered with the DVLA
The Austin Allegro has been voted Britain's worst car - 25 years after production ceased .

Made by British Leyland between 1973 and 1983, the car was plagued with so many design problems, it was dubbed the worst car ever made

One example of its poor construction was that it was more aerodynamic when travelling backwards than when it was being driven forwards.

A total of 642,350 Allegros were manufactured in those 10 years, with the early versions boasting a rectangular steering wheel.

It was popular with drivers in the 70s and by 1979 was the fifth best selling car in the country, but its popularity dwindled and there are currently only 1,000 still registered with the DVLA.

In a survey of 4,000 motorists, carried out by internet magazine iMotormag, nearly a quarter - 24 per cent - labelled the Allegro as the car they would least like to be seen driving.

It was closely followed by the Morris Ital, which received 23.4 per cent of the vote.

The rest of the top 10 worst cars were: Talbot Sunbeam with 11.4 per cent, Austin Princess with 10.7 per cent, Hillman Imp with 10.6 per cent, Rover 200 with 5.7 per cent, Triumph Acclaim with 4.4 per cent, Rover 800 with 3.8 per cent, Morris 1800 with 2.6 per cent and the Triumph TR7 with two per cent.

 

Having managed yesterday to contain my feelings of being grievously slighted, I now must comment a little further. Whilst innovation in the Allegro was restricted to the fitting of a square (!) steering wheel, the 'Sud, despite its modest pricing, featured a beautiful little flat four with wonderful throttle response on Dellortos or Webers, a provocative rasping exhaust note, inboard front discs and a very neat rear axle. The engine format, brakes, well-weighted steering and suspension all made for a car that on bends would monster many of the 'sports cars' of the era. And, on a car easily affordable by many, you had one of the very best marque badges in the business.

Despite the cachet enjoyed by the Rolex 'badge,' until very recently I never had the slightest desire to own one. But, a couple of weeks ago, I suddenly 'got' the Daytona. Naive little old me excitedly reported to my nearest Rolex AD to enquire about their waiting list: 8 years, but it's actually closed (unless you've already proven yourself worthy,) (i.e. ready to buy at least two other available models in the meantime). Worst of all was the supercilious manner in which the information was dispensed. We certainly did not have a waiting list for prospective 'Sud buyers - indeed so keen were our dealers to get them registered that they'd likely quote lead time as minus 1 day! But one thing most Alfa owners said back then was how much they liked the way they were treated, even if the quality of their cars sometimes was a challenge. I wonder how many potential Rolex owners today would make such a comment?

And now, a gratuitous picture of Alfas at Daytoas:

 

I have nothing against Suds at all & my post was concerning the All Aggro . One of my best friends owned a Sud back in the mid 80s, & we all loved it . Unfortunately for the Sud ,rust did to .

 

Yes - I was only joking as I had noted that you only said there was a visual resemblance. My landlady bought a new Allegro in '73/'74 and it got through 3 gearboxes in the first few months. Everything about it was emblematic of the poor state of our British Motor Industry at the time.

But how's this for madness - an Allegro offered for £5,000 with the tag 'unspoilt' - but surely it had been spoiled by the very act of building it!

 

One of my neighbours had the VDP version & he loved it .

 

Lo

Looks like a toy...