Roland Ranfft (and database) news

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I noticed it was gone again last night.
The .org variation sort of works, but the search function is wonkey. It also does not handle the cross references well either.

The archive.org mirror is spotty. There are 10,000 records and no way to search them. I got lucky as I did find the family I was looking for AS 1748/49. But the results were in German.

Hopefully this will be resored again. It was a nice thing to have.
 
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It is a great loss to the watch community… I used it a lot over the years…
 
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I noticed it was gone again last night.
The .org variation sort of works, but the search function is wonkey. It also does not handle the cross references well either.
If you detail me some ideas for the search engine I can keep them in mind for the next batch of improvements.
I made that site in my month of vacation so that people on the internet could still consult the data when the original site was gone. I think for a 1 month development it is quite complete.
 
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I have been busy for the weekend.

Noticed that common movements like AS 1687 are marked as depricated. Seems odd as this data should be fairly robust. Not sure why any should be deleted. Not sure there is much desire to make it a wiki with logins and such. I hate making accounts as I can never remember them. Such also needs heavy moderation as there are people what just like messing with things. Simply becouse they can.

It is also nice to see all the watch thumbnails at the same time. Scrolling through them takes time.

Ideally the parametric "advanced" search could be brough over in situ. Check the bridge shapes screw position boxes and such and the record is presented. There was also a lot of cross reference info, which was really useful. Not really seeing this.

Did get the archive.org to find the database record, was in German.

Could be that it takes time to get used to the new AI.
 
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Seems odd as this data should be fairly robust.

About explains the reason for this. Basically it is to try to have as much data as possible that is uploaded by users to join with my dataset that is clean and has no data from the original site. That way it would be a dataset without any licensing problem.

As for the login is ONLY for those who want to collaborate by uploading a lot of data to the project. For the rest of the people there will be a form for open contributions. The contributions will be moderated.
I see a better scenario to have a moderation queue than having outdated data for decades.

As for the rest, surely next year I will be able to make time to add several more features. For the moment I could only prioritize to make something fast with as much data as possible so that people could continue consulting.
 
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We all appreciate your efforts to save the data that exists. If people come up with new research, that’s a bonus.

Dr. Ranfft’s legacy lives on.
gatorcpa
 
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Hello!
I took advantage of the end of the year holidays to schedule several improvements and fixes. I also uploaded the possibility for users to log in with an anonymous session to propose changes and new calibers.
I take opportunity of this thread to invite users to upload pictures of their calibers, unfortunately I don't have so many omegas to update them all...

Regards
 
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Hello forum, I would like to take a few minutes to write a few words about the project.

As you all know I originally uploaded an explorable dump to github so that when the page disappeared users would be able to access the information. It didn't last long as I received several passive-aggressive messages asking me to delete the data from there and that's what I ended up doing.

So I decided to turn around the development of my original project and put the hours I had available those months to do the frontend and if the page disappeared again I would update what is published on ranfft.org to keep it accessible. After all, changing my roadmap didn't affect me that much and I could help anyone who needed to consult the data.

As I commented in several places and it is even written in the about I am working on a new image dataset and a new data dataset so I don't really need any data from the original site. The image dataset is well on track so I will soon be able to update them all and with regard to the data dataset several of Dr Ranfft's collaborators have joined the project so it seems to be on track.
To this end, I am in contact with some companies to see if they can provide me with the missing technical data to reach this goal. Inclusive if some user of the forum has information and wants to collaborate can write to me.I answer all the mails I receive.

But despite all this I notice that many take it personally, talking about me without knowing me and even saying things that they clearly wouldn't say to someone's face. I suppose they must have some ulterior motive to act this way but I would prefer that they lower the level of aggression, after all I was permeable to all their requests. Even to those who are clearly hiding something.

I reiterate again what I have said in several forums, I maintain a community that this year is 22 years old and all the activities I did these years were always free for people to learn. This project is no exception, but it is exhausting to take it to the personal field.

Greetings
DSR!
 
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Sorry to hear that. I have the feeling the passive-agressive guys are from German origin? 😉 Keep up the good work, I really appreciate someone is keeping the data and the project of Roland alive.

Nico
 
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The messages they sent to me were in English so I don't really know. But the copy of the messages I got today were in German so maybe they were always from there.
In any case, I don't give it any importance. But since you were giving such a negative opinion about me, I assumed that you had to reply by some way.

Anyway I find it surprising that nobody knew how many images or calibers had in the archive and in reality they still don't know because what my statistics say is how many I have that are bigger than the original. And I expect that gap to continue to grow in the coming months.
For example, there are some models of Omega calibers that still don't have a page...
 
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I think the WUS posters summed up their gripes pretty succinctly. I summarized them below.

I don't have a real opinion on this. I'm just happy that most of the data is still available.

1. You used the Ranfft name without permission and have no connection with Dr. Ranfft. If you had named your website xchwarze.org, no one would have this complaint. Although you might not have gotten the exposure.
2. You're a new unknown member asking for volunteers to fill in the database. People have no idea what your intentions are or whether you'll put it behind a paywall later.
 
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I have no problem with complaints, after all, people can understand each other by talking.
As I commented in other threads:

1) The name was provisional so that whoever needed access to the data. Data that may not be clear but nobody knows if it is deleted or not.
At first I was thinking of using the name as a tribute, but it's something I've commented on several times and I'm rethinking it. However, I find it strange that someone who does nothing about it takes the liberty to tell someone who did do something about it what to name the project.
After all the page was deleted again and the conversation is still stuck at the same point as August which is coincidentally what I said in that thread was going to happen.

2) I've heard this comment from people who don't even enter the site.... I think the about section talks about it and beyond that section you can talk respectfully about the subject.
I'm pretty sure I've helped more people for free in my time in the security communities by giving talks and sharing tools than any of those people who can't get into the site in question and open the link to what it's about....

And nobody heard of me in the watchmaking world for the simple fact that I come from development and this is just another hobby. The idea of my original site was to practice AI and test some ideas I have, and in the process keep learning about watchmaking.

I never thought that the site would disappear like this, but this just proved something and it's even cruel... if as it is said on the sites unfortunately Dr Ranfft was financially bad... why didn't he sell the database during his lifetime? The answer is the same as why the site is the same as it was in 2005.
The site I manage is better positioned and has much more traffic and yet I did nothing to monetize it. It is clear that this project is not monetizable and it is not something I say, it is something that shows you that it was still the same site in 2005.
 
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Yes, watchmakers are on the whole passive aggressive. Finding the right place to bend the harspring is fustrating.


Back in the first year of the popularization of the term 'internet' someone asked me if I knew what is was. I said it was a new way of communication, something as revolutionary as the road or the wheel.

I told the that. Like a road information can be transferred openly. On the other hand one can charge tolls for the information to travel. Or they could build walls to keep the information private. Information can also be stolen or traded. That it might be possible that wars could even be fought over it. -- I always though that was a good prophesy, Although I did beleve Lee Feldenstien, who said "Information wants to be free."

I miss the parametric search method. A lot of the 'pages' were still up, over 10,000 of them on Archive.org. when I last looked. That though is based on popularity. So if the pages are not being served to pass through what ever section of the network that is being sniffed, they are never archived. Similarly bad links what get clicked onto tend to get archived. Some of this possibly intentionally done as a way to re-write history.

IP data is a strange beast. There are many who believe in profiting from control of information. This is how media like films and television are funded. Books and other ephemera to a lesser degree. Rare items are more valuable than the common stuff.

Back in the golden age of collecting. The groups had publication committees. There were publishers like Harvey Rohel and Lauren Scanlon. Their mission was to share information. They also operated under ideas grandfathered before the 1970s. A lot of these books and things tend to 'borrow' a lot more than is currently acceptable. I always found it amusing that some of the hands on articles and columns in the American Horologer and Jewler, were replaced with a column called 'The Jeweler and the law.' The odds of winning a lawsuit are much better than winning the lottery. So the world is full of nuisance litigation.

Curiously when they got towards the end there was often 'young person,' who became their 'Friend.' However when they inherited or purchased the the IP, from the estate, such was sold off to IP clearing houses, who's mission is to keep the data as a large portfolio what can be used for collateral when borrowed against. So they could write intimidating ceist and desist letters. I think Roy O. Disney perfected this model. Removing access toe films/books/audio, for a period of 7 years. Since it was rare, people were willing to pay more to see it again. When one needs more funds, dust off the old stuff and rent it again. At the same time they bury the old stuff, because the 18 to 25s who have the discretionary impulse income are told they only want "Brighter, new and improved stuff."

This is why Amazon, owns half the MGM back catalog (post 1970s) and Warner (or what ever they are called this week. Is it now max?) Own the other half. At one time Netflix had the stuff that was in quasi public domain and shown on TV. Amazon got it then after a year it all became 'unavailable' again. (and I have been in the mood to see Glynis John's 'Miranda' but can not.) And Amazon is out to gobble up all the IP they can. Remember they started as a book store, then a book publisher.

The same thing happens with patents and other innovation. It becomes about the quantity over the quality. When Kodak failed, the patent portfolio was broken up, I think Apple got a lot of it. Another company Alaris got the trademarks. Companies are valued by their patent portfolios. Especially the bio tech ones.

Companies also now rely on 'Trade Secrets.' Which is basically Snake oil. No one really knows how much potato squeezings their are in relationship to seawater.

Look at something like the Omega archives. How they were abused to create desirable 'collectable' 'lost' examples. Also look at the number of inquiries for valuation here.

Curiously things like the Bestfit catalog, which was a loss leader had the copyright clawed back, by a struggling material house.

Personally I admire what you have done to preserve what you can. It is not that much useful for me though than the archive.org snapshot or a google cache since it does not have a the parametric search capability. It is not the individual records, what are valuable, It is how the records are accessed.

OEM manufactures also do not like it when one can see what other products the base models are used for. Old factories are often bought and sold, which is even more of the accounting obfuscation of the 'Trade secret.'

The other issue is easy access to this sort of data also makes it easier for forgers and counterfeiters to fake stuff. So I can sort of see why
there is somewhat of an 'agenda.' Rocking the status quo can be damaging to some who perceive threats to power.

Many want to believe things are the same tomorrow as they were yesterday.

And who am I to tell them otherwise...

🍿
 
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I was happy to leave everything on github and let the internet work with its magic....

About functionalities, I was planning the new advanced search, I wanted to add all the fields for the search and for sorting. But if you refer to the options to filter by Part positioning I was not planning to integrate the original data. Actually when I checked those data I didn't find them very consistent.
 
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Yes, watchmakers are on the whole passive aggressive. Finding the right place to bend the harspring is fustrating.

So you are certain that the people complaining are watchmakers?
 
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So you are certain that the people complaining are watchmakers?
I really don't think they even have a screwdriver.

In August when the death of the Dr. became known I tried to make an account on the forum where they were talking about buying the rights to the original DB.
My idea was to offer that as I was already working on it we could do something together. But that didn't go beyond the idea because it seems that if I'm not European I can't register in that forum (they deleted my account for not being European).
At this point it seems to me that it is even deliberate to attack me from a forum that won't let me make an account...

Having made this last comment on the matter, I don't intend to spend any more time on this subject.

In a few weeks I will be uploading improvements to the site so if you have any suggestions I am more than happy to listen to them. 😉
 
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For the enjoyment of the community I uploaded all the data I had on the lift angles values.
I am also working on an update to replace all the flume codes with the ones Ronda uses.