Recommended Zenith Watches On Ebay (Not Inquires)

MyVintageOmega · Dec 8, 2012

U ulackfocus
Hooter girls are inferior to Wing House girls. 😉

You convinced me.....I'am hanging with the Wing House gals.....👍.........

MMMD · Dec 9, 2012

U ulackfocus
You'll get no argument from me. Best excuse to buy a gold watch ever! 😜

Nice snag man. We have to get you Zenith guys either up to NY or down to Tampa for one of the GTG's - whether it's one of the annual big shindigs or a smaller version with beer, wings and waitresses in skimpy outfits.

Thanks. That watch ticked a lot of boxes on the old checklist: cal 133.8, which I didn't have; the shiny gold thing, of course; the chronometre designation; the Captaincy (model indication always a plus); and finally that wacky imprint of a stylized Z inside a balance wheel on the back.
Here's another, slightly earlier and more distinctive (note the sun-ray cut-outs around the hour markers) version of this watch that I missed out on a little while ago, after scoffing at the asking price for a couple of months before finally caving and contacting the seller, only to find that the watch had been sold (though it's still listed as available): The Captain that Got Away. So I also had that insane "the one that got away" motivation this time.

That Z-Wheel logo on the case backs of these watches is something of a running gag among Zenithologists; John Chris believes it is the mark of Zorro. Our deity, Manfred Rössler, states (p.118) that: "the engraving has nothing to do either with Zenith or with the case manufacturer. It must be an association logo (possibly freemasons or similar groups)." It's just a Z that looks a bit like an hourglass, inside a ship's wheel, only appearing on Zenith watches of the Captain model line, and nowhere else in the known universe. Of course it has nothing to do with Zenith, and must be the logo of some mysterious fraternity. It's hard to blame Rössler - he probably didn't have access to as many images as we do now, and history-keeping, like marketing, has never been Zenith's strong suit, so he got no help here from the mother ship.
In order to preserve the Zenithologist belief system, based on the infallibility of Rössler, I'm going to have to start some such association.

I'm in for the chicken wings and breasts, or the more fancy... just give me a little lead time.

LouS · Dec 9, 2012

MMMD
That Z-Wheel logo on the case backs of these watches is something of a running gag among Zenithologists; John Chris believes it is the mark of Zorro. Our deity, Manfred Rössler, states (p.118) that: "the engraving has nothing to do either with Zenith or with the case manufacturer. It must be an association logo (possibly freemasons or similar groups)." It's just a Z that looks a bit like an hourglass, inside a ship's wheel, only appearing on Zenith watches of the Captain model line, and nowhere else in the known universe. Of course it has nothing to do with Zenith, and must be the logo of some mysterious fraternity. It's hard to blame Rössler - he probably didn't have access to as many images as we do now, and history-keeping, like marketing, has never been Zenith's strong suit, so he got no help here from the mother ship.
In order to preserve the Zenithologist belief system, based on the infallibility of Rössler, I'm going to have to start some such association.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ZOR...987328035?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item19d75c3a23

MSNWatch · Dec 10, 2012

Black dial chronographs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261136431384

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261139635737

Stewart H · Dec 10, 2012

It's a shame he had to use the "romantic" lighting for the movement photos on that first one but it has got me thinking though. Would it be complete heresy to take an Excelsior Park movement and rough gold plate it? I can sense a future project taking shape.

LouS · Dec 10, 2012

MSNWatch
Black dial chronographs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261136431384

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261139635737

First is not shabby, but is a nonrunner, and currently sits not far from fair value.

Second is one of the grails on my short list, a ref A 277, but an awfully grotty example. The subdials look like microbiology culture wells, a separate and rare yeast or bacterium growing in each. It'll never look decent with that dial, but it's a good parts watch.

Stewart H
It's a shame he had to use the "romantic" lighting for the movement photos on that first one but it has got me thinking though. Would it be complete heresy to take an Excelsior Park movement and rough gold plate it? I can sense a future project taking shape.

And here's your test mule: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZENITH-CHRO...988333000?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item19d76b8fc8

dsio · Dec 10, 2012

What's the servicing situation with Zenith? Do they service vintage, have vintage dial availability, or have the ability to make more (the dies and whatever else)

LouS · Dec 10, 2012

Had to post this one. Price is twice what it ought to be, but it is a beautiful example...feast for the eyes
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280995460995?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

<EDIT: pictures added for posterity - and since I 🥰 this watch..... ULF>

MMMD · Dec 10, 2012

dsio
What's the servicing situation with Zenith? Do they service vintage, have vintage dial availability, or have the ability to make more (the dies and whatever else)

Zenith does service vintage. I am not really the person to answer this question, as I have never dealt with Zenith directly, but since no one has answered yet... my sense from the general forum buzz is that the service of vintage pieces at Zenith is 1) hit-or-miss in terms of quality and 2) unwaveringly expensive. Zenith has not yet made a commitment to the care and feeding of vintage owners/collectors. There is clearly a stash of replacement parts at Le Locle, but the extent of this horde and the ability of the factory to make replacement parts is, at least for me, shrouded in mystery. I do know this: a Swiss watch dealer was recently able to extract from Zenith some impossible-to-find replacement hands for a special vintage piece in about two days, simply by sending them the case number, to the utter disbelief of some vintage Zenith cognoscenti. I'm getting the impression that dealing with Zenith through a well-connected intermediary - the Swisser the better - is the way to go.

ulackfocus · Dec 10, 2012

MMMD
the service of vintage pieces at Zenith is 1) hit-or-miss in terms of quality and 2) unwaveringly expensive.

Sounds like Omega. The best I've personally seen is JLC. The quality of their work is excellent so you can scratch problem #1 off the list and I have the watches to illustrate, but problem #2 is glaring and I have the invoices to prove that too. 😲

MMMD
- the Swisser the better -

I like when somebody makes a new word for this hobby. 😜

LouS · Dec 11, 2012

MSNWatch
Black dial chronographs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261136431384

$1625 for a nonrunner. Impressive.

LouS · Dec 11, 2012

dsio
What's the servicing situation with Zenith? Do they service vintage, have vintage dial availability, or have the ability to make more (the dies and whatever else)

It is an act of faith among Zenith fans that somewhere in the Zenith factory, which same physical plant Zenith has inhabited over the entirety of its history since the very beginning, there are replacement parts for everything. And Zenith bleeds out the occasional unusual part, dial, handset or case in NOS condition just often enough to reinforce this belief. But access is opaque and haphazard. There is no archival service, except when some collector who knows someone who knows an email of someone else gets a brief but courteous reply.

During a trip to the manufacture, James Dowling documented that Zenith indeed does have dies to a wide variety of vintage movements, including the 135 - http://justwatchingwithjamesdowling.blogspot.com/2011/07/attic-trip-into-watchmaking-history.html - but apart from Primero, they've never been known to actually use them.

As for service, back in the fall of 2010, I sent Zenith a running vintage Primero for service, encouraged when they posted their service fees on their website under the then-new directorship of Jean Frederic Dufour. http://www.zenith-watches.com/en/#/customer-service/service-fees/ New spirit of transparency, breath of fresh air, new emphasis on customer service, hurrah.

Their fee for service of vintage pieces (which they defined as pre 1995) was not specified, but their fee for a Primero without complications was then, as it is now, USD 630. Remarkably decent for manufacture service. So how bad could vintage service be when the movement has barely changed since it's introduction?

Answer:

Well, really it's not so out of line for Swiss manufacture service but I certainly felt misled by the advertised amount. I declined the service.

And that's what I know about Zenith and vintage service.

ulackfocus · Dec 11, 2012

Here ya go Lou - a more suitable cat expression for that:

MMMD · Dec 12, 2012

Here is one that merits some discussion:

Zenith A384

One of the earliest of the early El Primero's and a grail to many Zenithistas. I think in good shape, though some better lit pix of the case and a movement shot would be nice. And I am a bit concerned that this will be the seller's first sale... unless these thoroughly pimpin' alligator boots go first:

These would look damned good with your Zenith A384.

cicindela · Dec 12, 2012

MMMS, Perhaps you are not familar with Ulackfocus's penchant for Alligator 🙄

LouS · Dec 12, 2012

You are upsetting the cat again.

MSNWatch · Dec 12, 2012

I think in general the vintage watch collectors tend not to send their watches back to the factory for servicing - lots of negatives including cost, long turnaround times and most importantly failure to preserve original parts. I have never had Omega in Bienne service any of my timepieces - I have a couple of watchmakers I work with and am very specific about what to do and not do with a specific watch and frequently, I provide the parts that need replacing - I actually include an index card with every watch specifying what I wanted for that particular piece. I also have a store of vintage movements I keep with both to use for parts and of course I have a whole tackle box filled with parts that I store for future use. I don't know what the trend is with zenith but I have noticed vintage omega watch parts becoming harder and harder to locate as the company seems to be slowly moving towards expensive factory service for all their watches new or old.

LouS · Dec 12, 2012

MMMD
Here is one that merits some discussion:

Zenith A384

One of the earliest of the early El Primero's and a grail to many Zenithistas. I think in good shape, though some better lit pix of the case and a movement shot would be nice.

Potentially a good find. The problem of course is poor photography. Poor photography generally indicates someone trying to conceal something or a novice seller, so in this case, no prior sales sort of stands Mr. Tex MacDaddy in good stead. You'll note that other watch he is selling is also badly shot, although the boots came out rather well.

Dial and hands look very good. No movement shot unfortunately. My biggest concern is the condition of the case. Certainly, the edges appear sharp, but in that second image, the top edge appears curved. It could be an artefact created by the camera lens, but that's also another way to screw up this case. It typically happens when someone polishes too close to the edge of the crystal and then has to camouflage the error.

Example:
Normal contour

Botched polishing

This little issue is easily resolved by asking seller for additional pix. You could suggest to him that he shoot doors under natural light to remove the annoying shadows.

Here's a little promotional literature for you

Stewart H · Dec 12, 2012

OK. So here is one example. I have been dithering over this one that didn't sell last time on eBay. Every other time I look at it, I think "yes, I'll go for it". Every other time it's "no, it's not right". I'll throw this open now because I'm just not sure and currently don't think I'll go for it - that's different from a couple of hours ago.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281035352723?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

It is either dodgy or the deal of the century. Granted that it isn't much cash and the slight imperfection in the word Zenith on the dial is what makes me think that it is a re-dial sometimes and it isn't at other times.

Rossler mentions, briefly, calibres before the 135 that had been chronometre tested but doesn't show pictures. I have got a 106-6 that has a silvered sub-dial and white face, but it's not that silver. I also have two genuine Zeniths (3 if you count the Bresancon watch) that do not have Swiss Made on the dial but they are from 1945 and 1964. This one is from 1949 (ish)

If I'm wrong, then this one is rarer than $h1t from a rocking horse.

MSNWatch · Dec 12, 2012

Stewart H
OK. So here is one example. I have been dithering over this one that didn't sell last time on eBay. Every other time I look at it, I think "yes, I'll go for it". Every other time it's "no, it's not right". I'll throw this open now because I'm just not sure and currently don't think I'll go for it - that's different from a couple of hours ago.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281035352723?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

It is either dodgy or the deal of the century. Granted that it isn't much cash and the slight imperfection in the word Zenith on the dial is what makes me think that it is a re-dial sometimes and it isn't at other times.

Rossler mentions, briefly, calibres before the 135 that had been chronometre tested but doesn't show pictures. I have got a 106-6 that has a silvered sub-dial and white face, but it's not that silver. I also have two genuine Zeniths (3 if you count the Bresancon watch) that do not have Swiss Made on the dial but they are from 1945 and 1964. This one is from 1949 (ish)

If I'm wrong, then this one is rarer than $h1t from a rocking horse.

I'm not a zenith expert by any stretch but that watch looks like a poor redial.

Recommended Zenith Watches On Ebay (Not Inquires)

MyVintageOmega

MMMD

LouS

MSNWatch

Stewart H

LouS

dsio

LouS

MMMD

ulackfocus

LouS

LouS

ulackfocus

MMMD

cicindela

LouS

MSNWatch

LouS

Stewart H

MSNWatch

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