Community Stories

Really bad Zenith on the bay

JwRosenthal
Posts
16,307
Likes
44,994
This one would be an interesting test of the authenticity program. If an uneducated authenticator sees Zenith on the dial and bridge, and they pass it through- then you receive it and claim it’s a fake (to which we know the answer), do you have recourse- is the authenticators “ruling” final?
 
CaptainWinsor
Posts
1,986
Likes
3,558
I just looked at the sellers other items. A lot of watches, including other Zenith chronos, with prices starting at 2K+ so they obviously know this piece is fake.
 
timoss
Posts
974
Likes
1,514
CaptainWinsor CaptainWinsor
I just looked at the sellers other items. A lot of watches, including other Zenith chronos, with prices starting at 2K+ so they obviously know this piece is fake.
I don’t follow... ?
 
Dan S
Posts
24,250
Likes
53,999
Yes, it's a Landeron 48. What an awful obvious fake. Interesting that eBay flagged it for authentication. Maybe just based on the fact that it's gold and a "Zenith"?

Potential shill bidding too.
 
Flysatchmo
Posts
648
Likes
9,540
JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
This one would be an interesting test of the authenticity program. If an uneducated authenticator sees Zenith on the dial and bridge, and they pass it through- then you receive it and claim it’s a fake (to which we know the answer), do you have recourse- is the authenticators “ruling” final?

Could you or anyone else please elaborate on how you can so quickly determine this is a fake and the movement and any other markers that send up the “red flags” ....I’m trying to educate myself more on how to spot these. One of the reasons I’m so happy I joined this forum is the amazing amount of Information you all are able to impart. Thanks 😀
 
Dan S
Posts
24,250
Likes
53,999
Flysatchmo Flysatchmo
Could you or anyone else please elaborate on how you can so quickly determine this is a fake and the movement and any other markers that send up the “red flags” ....I’m trying to educate myself more on how to spot these. One of the reasons I’m so happy I joined this forum is the amazing amount of Information you all are able to impart. Thanks 😀

It's a common Chronographe Suisse with "ZENITH" printed on the dial. Nothing to do with Zenith, they never made chronographs like this. The Zenith signed bridge on the Landeron 48 movement (not used by Zenith) has been transplanted and is the wrong color. Zenith logo much more modern than the movement, which is not shock-protected. I could go on ...

Spend a few years looking at tens of thousands of vintage watches and it will be obvious to you also. 👍
 
JwRosenthal
Posts
16,307
Likes
44,994
Flysatchmo Flysatchmo
Could you or anyone else please elaborate on how you can so quickly determine this is a fake and the movement and any other markers that send up the “red flags” ....I’m trying to educate myself more on how to spot these. One of the reasons I’m so happy I joined this forum is the amazing amount of Information you all are able to impart. Thanks 😀
Like Dan said, there are some key markers to look for that come with exposure. Chronographs like this were very popular in the late 40’s-early 50’s. Landeron based Chronos were incredibly popular because they were inexpensive and fairly robust. What they lacked in engineering elegance, they made up for in durability and price (I have a couple). It was common practice for a designer or brand to buy stock parts and assemble watches for mass consumption putting their logo on the dial. Even some better brands did this (Leonidas- later incorporating with Heuer comes to mind). But the tell is usually in the dial style and the Landeron movement (if the seller took a picture that didn’t intentionally obscure under the balance we would see L48).
1AE26083-D00A-4B1A-BED2-1769BF0BE449.jpeg B5D07F0B-628B-423B-8E29-6F7896DDCF59.jpeg A61B19E5-25C4-4D1F-960B-4DEAE11A5CB3.jpeg
 
JwRosenthal
Posts
16,307
Likes
44,994
And I want to clarify for the uneducated- these Landeron based watches aren’t bad, some of them are beautifully designed and a joy to wear. I have a few as do many members here- they are cheap thrills- but they aren’t a Zenith.
 
Flysatchmo
Posts
648
Likes
9,540
JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
And I want to clarify for the uneducated- these Landeron based watches aren’t bad, some of them are beautifully designed and a joy to wear. I have a few as do many members here- they are cheap thrills- but they aren’t a Zenith.

I’m in awe of all your knowledge (and a little jealous). I’ve spent over half my life flying airplanes so I know what it takes to become educated in a specific endeavor. I only wish I had started educating myself sooner. It’s fascinating! Thanks to everyone for the great info 😀
 
JwRosenthal
Posts
16,307
Likes
44,994
Flysatchmo Flysatchmo
I’m in awe of all your knowledge (and a little jealous). I’ve spent over half my life flying airplanes so I know what it takes to become educated in a specific endeavor. I only wish I had started educating myself sooner. It’s fascinating! Thanks to everyone for the great info 😀
Thanks, but much of what I’ve learned came from many of the members here- I’m just paying it forward. I have a fairly egalitarian perspective on watches- nothing wrong with a mass produced consumer product if it’s done well. But in this situation, we are talking about a watch made up to be something it is not- and that’s deceptive, and the lowest of the low.
 
Darlinboy
Posts
8,742
Likes
69,448
Landeron-driven watches - lots of nice looking references out there but... I am not a fan of the movements at all based on personal experience with numerous watches - and even more numerous problems. So many in fact that I won't touch anything with a Landeron under the hood. No doubt others will have had a more positive view, perhaps even a more informed one. But you won't change my mind. ☕
 
Flysatchmo
Posts
648
Likes
9,540
JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Thanks, but much of what I’ve learned came from many of the members here- I’m just paying it forward. I have a fairly egalitarian perspective on watches- nothing wrong with a mass produced consumer product if it’s done well. But in this situation, we are talking about a watch made up to be something it is not- and that’s deceptive, and the lowest of the low.

Agreed !
 
tikkathree
Posts
1,434
Likes
6,513
Tony C. Tony C.
Quibbles about authenticity aside...

afrafr.png

Language not regular or syntax are not ditto the same are not indicational of integrity of product for sale offered is. :whipped:::facepalm1::::facepalm1::
 
4 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

lucreative

Similar 18k Cal 342 on the Bay...

lucreative Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Caliber561
Caliber561
Posts
1
Views
420
lucreative

105.003 Ed Franken on The Bay

lucreative Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
lucreative
lucreative
Posts
39
Views
3K
kippyk

Bad lume Hall of Fame on the Bay

kippyk Open Discussion
Geezer
Geezer
Posts
5
Views
1K
dootcho

2998-6 with FAP provenance just went on the bay

dootcho Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
PlainVanilla
PlainVanilla
Posts
16
Views
3K
CaptainWinsor

Another fraudulent Zenith on the bay

CaptainWinsor Zenith Watches
CaptainWinsor
CaptainWinsor
Posts
2
Views
2K
dsio

An 18K Grand Luxe on the bay with the owner’s name on the dial??

dsio Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
omegavn
omegavn
Posts
41
Views
8K