RCAF Chronograph dial question

JohnLy · Nov 12, 2019

I have 3 of the RCAF single button chronographs, the Omega, Breitling and the Rodania. On the Omega and Rodania thre is a clear (lacquer?) coating around the lume for the hour markers and the 6&12. I heard the RCAF removed the radioactive markers and originally this is what I am seeing, a not very good relume. But if it was relumed why the clear coating?
Has anyone seen this before? Any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated.

steversaurus · Nov 13, 2019

Can't help you, but nice set of RCAFs nonetheless.

JohnLy · Nov 14, 2019

S steversaurus
Can't help you, but nice set of RCAFs nonetheless.

Thanks @steversaurus, I wear them frequently. I don't see the lacquer unless its under a loupe or is the sun hits it just right so it doesn't bother me.

Faz · Nov 14, 2019

Maybe @RCAFBuster can chime in?

cholack · Nov 15, 2019

Only pure speculation, but I don’t think they added lacquer, rather that they have used some sort of mildly abrasive material to remove the original lume for the eventual relume.

JimJupiter · Nov 15, 2019

Couldn’t that be radium burn of the previous lume? Have seen this many times before, but not that shiny though.

watchyouwant · Nov 15, 2019

Pls. Have a look, when they were issued. Engraving in the back....they were never issued with radium, therefore whatever you see will have nothing to do with MoD activity in removing that material. Rcaf buster is your best bet.... He had seen a lot of these. Kind regards. Achim

JohnLy · Nov 15, 2019

watchyouwant
Pls. Have a look, when they were issued. Engraving in the back....they were never issued with radium, therefore whatever you see will have nothing to do with MoD activity in removing that material. Rcaf buster is your best bet.... He had seen a lot of these. Kind regards. Achim

steversaurus · Nov 15, 2019

Another thing that I was never to sure about was why the lume on the hands where often shades lighter than the dial.

JohnLy · Nov 15, 2019

Hi Achim Thank you for your input. I

have attached pictures of the backs.
On the Breitling, it appears it's a DND issue. According to Konrad Knirims book number of the Breitling chronographs originally issued to the RCAF which have had their dials crudely redone have also had their casebacks refinished and updated engravings. My watch fits the description of the refinished caseback but the dial does not look redone. It appears to me its original except around the Lume.
On the Omega, you can see on the picture that it has an "S" engraved on the caseback which is assumed to stand for "Surplus" again according to Konrad Kririms book. The dial on the Omega also appears to be original except for the area around the Lume.
Your point that they were never issued with radium is confusing because Konrads book does say they were considered hazardous radioactive material. Perhaps the omega being "Surplus" and the Breitling "DND" had a different lume???
Apologize for the quality of the pictures.
I would like to hear @RCAFBusters input.

oddboy · Nov 15, 2019

@RCAFBuster is certainly the expert, but to me, that looks more like someone trying to preserve or stabilize the lume on the dial.

JohnLy · Nov 15, 2019

cholack
Only pure speculation, but I don’t think they added lacquer, rather that they have used some sort of mildly abrasive material to remove the original lume for the eventual relume.

Could be, not heard of that before but its been said they (Canadian Govt) were very crude when they did this.

oddboy
@RCAFBuster is certainly the expert, but to me, that looks more like someone trying to preserve or stabilize the lume on the dial.

That is also my impression...

watchyouwant · Nov 15, 2019

Most Omegas were produced and issued in 1962. that is around the cut off time for Radium on dials and hands worldwide. all your 3 RCAF pieces have the same lume colour. my guess is, that all have been re lumed. radium ages differently and the RCAF was quite trustworthy in not missing that procedure. so, relumed is my take on this. and touched up with clear varnish to avoid flaking is my guess. have never seen something like that before in the flesh. kind regards., achim

JohnLy · Nov 16, 2019

watchyouwant
Most Omegas were produced and issued in 1962. that is around the cut off time for Radium on dials and hands worldwide. all your 3 RCAF pieces have the same lume colour. my guess is, that all have been re lumed. radium ages differently and the RCAF was quite trustworthy in not missing that procedure. so, relumed is my take on this. and touched up with clear varnish to avoid flaking is my guess. have never seen something like that before in the flesh. kind regards., achim

The points you make on the dials make sense to me on many areas. First as you mentioned that the RCAF was diligent on removing the radium, secondly the lume on all 3 looks consistent in color and lastly there is no evidence of any radium burn on any of the 3.
I just have never seen the clear lacquer/varnish before. There have been several members, yourself included, suggest it was applied to preserve/stabilize the lume which makes sense to me.
Thanks to all for their observations, greatly appreciated.
Best John

Faz · Nov 17, 2019

Regardless, a great trio you have. Obviously, these are extremely difficult to find in original condition. Re-luming is a fact of the life of military issued watches until luminova came along.

Cheers,

JohnLy · Nov 17, 2019

Thanks @Faz I enjoy them. Obviously it would have been special if they had not been relumed but that doesn't take any of the enjoyment away from owning them...

RCAFBuster · Nov 18, 2019

Hi John,
Sorry, I haven't visited the site for a few days.

You have a nice trio. Based on the combined photo, all three have replaced crowns, and the Omega the pusher. The Rodania is one of hte higher numbers I've seen, but a nice RCAF serial. The Breitling caseback style looks like it might fall in the region of 1973 prodcution, but I'd need the number on the inside of the caseback. The 1960 Omega is lovely and is a nice early low number.

I have a few in my collection with the lacquer, used to stabilise the lume. In the early 90s, the RCAF ordered them destroyed due to the radium lume, afraid of legalities. When the watches were swapped for service, they would have have the lume replaced.

Cheers,

Buster

JohnLy · Nov 19, 2019

Hi Buster,

Good to hear from you and thanks for the report on the pushers and crowns. If you have any hints of where I should look for parts would appreciate a heads up.
The s/n on the Breitling is 1421288.
So on some cases after they relumed the dials they would apply some clear lacquer on the new lume? I ask that because I would have assumed the new lume should be fine or was the lacquer to help keep the new lume from flaking off?
Greatly appreciate your expertise.

Best
John

RCAFBuster · Nov 19, 2019

Hi John,

Your Breitling is a 1973 model.

The original crowns and pushers are becoming almost unavailable on the web, so happy hunting.
Yes, the concensus is that the lacquer was to ensure to lume flaking over time. Unless you catch it in the light to get a reflection, you generally don't see the lacquer too much.

Cheers,

Buster

JohnLy · Nov 19, 2019

RCAFBuster
Hi John,

Your Breitling is a 1973 model.

The original crowns and pushers are becoming almost unavailable on the web, so happy hunting.
Yes, the concensus is that the lacquer was to ensure to lume flaking over time. Unless you catch it in the light to get a reflection, you generally don't see the lacquer too much.

Cheers,

Buster

Good call on the Breitling production date.... Thanks again

RCAF Chronograph dial question

JohnLy

steversaurus

JohnLy

Faz

cholack

JimJupiter

watchyouwant

JohnLy

steversaurus

JohnLy

oddboy

JohnLy

watchyouwant

JohnLy

Faz

JohnLy

RCAFBuster

JohnLy

RCAFBuster

JohnLy

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