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Rare Italian Seamaster? Help

335si
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I am trying to determine if this Seamaster is in fact one of the “1993 Italy only” versions. These versions omitted “Chronometer” on the dial, yet had automatic movements.

It’s a 36mm Seamaster automatic.
Doesn’t have “chronometer” on the dial
The dial looks to have the automatic date window that the 36mm chronometer dial has vs the quartz dial that has lume at the 3 o’clock mark.

Here is a link to the only info I could find on these models.

https://www.chronocentric.com/galleries/omega_seamaster.shtml#smp_nonchrono

IMG_6128.webp
 
padders
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In short yes. It does seem to be one of the early non chronometer autos, presumably using the 1108 or similar movement. It may well be rare but that doesn't necessarily mean desirable or valuable.
Edited:
 
335si
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I opened it up and the movement appears to not be original. The movement is an 1109 movement and the serial number on the movement does not match the serial number on the case.

Did Omega match the case and movement serial numbers back in 1993?
 
padders
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That is unfortunate. The numbers on case and movement should deffo match.
Edited:
 
dsio
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Do these have a different reference at all or are they the same reference as the regular one? and do they come in both mid-size and full size? I've never seen this before, but I do remember seeing 1108/1109 mentioned in relation to the regular 2531.80 and often wondered why there were two listed
 
padders
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Yes they have different PICs and did it seems occur in both sizes. A quick search suggests the non chronometer rated full size was 2531.81. They may have had different case numbers too though I’m less sure about that. Presumably the mid size also used the same PIC as the 1109/1120 version but with a final 1 digit to denote the different dial text.

The OP watch does appear to have a legit non chronometer auto 36mm dial suggesting there was indeed a mid size, though I’ve never seen one before it must be said. That exact configuration of text and date window isn’t seen on any other version.
Edited:
 
335si
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Here is a photo of inside the caseback. What does the “LL” stamped inside the tombstone mean?

IMG_6131.webp
 
padders
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LL is perfectly normal. It is presumably the case maker stamp and all SMPs of the era have it. Or so my memory says. I’m not sure what the case number should be for a 36mm so can’t comment there and am watching rugby so won’t spend too long checking. I’ve owned one but didn’t keep a record.

I think what you have there is a Franken. It started as a 1108 model with the serial on the lug on the movement but then for some reason received the currently fitted 1109 movement with a different serial. No way a mix of serials is original.
 
335si
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padders padders
LL is perfectly normal. It is presumably the case maker stamp and all SMPs of the era have it. Or so my memory says. I’m not sure what the case number should be for a 36mm so can’t comment there and am watching rugby so won’t spend too long checking. I’ve owned one but didn’t keep a record.

I think what you have there is a Franken. It started as a 1108 model with the serial on the lug on the movement but then for some reason received the currently fitted 1109 movement with a different serial. No way a mix of serials is original.thats
Yea. It seems like the most logical explanation. However, if the story about Omega being in a rush to send these to Italy is true, who knows if they just slap any movements they could get there hands on.

Years ago I reached out to Omega about it and they said they had record of the case serial number but had no record of the movement serial number.

Why would they not have record of the movement number?

Here is what they sent me over a decade ago.

“The case serial number 4962XXXX was delivered to us on 09.15.1994 while movement number 4972XXXX does not yield any results. Furthermore, neither of these watch number’s have entered our services centers for repairs at a previous date. Due to these reasons, we may not be able to provide an extract of records. However, If you would like to have your timepiece evaluated, we would suggest having it sent in to one of our service facilities.”
 
padders
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There is no conceivable circumstances where Omega would have shipped new watches with a mismatch on case and movement. Prior to the 1950s, cases had their own serial number (as well as case ref numbers) but since then, the watch only has one identifying serial, that of the movement. When a serial is marked on the outside of the case or more commonly lug (as it has been since around 1990) this is a repetition of the movement serial. The watch case has no number of its own any more.

The only logical answer here if the numbers on that watch don't match is a swap. Any other suggesting is just clutching at straws. Creative but futile.
 
335si
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I found another old email…Looks like I reached out to multiple people at Omega. I think I reached out to them here before I knew about the movement serial mismatch.

“Thank you for your inquiry.

The information that can be provided is that serial, 4962XXXX, references to model 25518000 originally sold to an authorized Omega dealer in 1994.

The movement should be a 1109 if it was not upgraded to a 1120.”
 
335si
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padders padders
There is no conceivable circumstances where Omega would have shipped new watches with a mismatch on case and movement. Prior to the 1950s, cases had their own serial number (as well as case ref numbers) but since then, the watch only has one identifying serial, that of the movement. When a serial is marked on the outside of the case or more commonly lug (as it has been since around 1990) this is a repetition of the movement serial. The watch case has no number of its own any more.

The only logical answer here if the numbers on that watch don't match is a swap. Any other suggesting is just clutching at straws. Creative but futile.Ok. Say the movement was replaced. Why would omega not have a record of the particular movement? They were able to find
I agree. I think the movement was likely replaced. However, why would Omega say they have no record of the movement number, but were able to locate the case serial number? Does Omega not track the replacement movements? If the movement was replaced from another watch then you would think there is a case number out there that matches my movement number and they would have found it. Or counterfeit movement?
 
JimInOz
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335si 335si
What does the “LL” stamped inside the tombstone mean?
It's the mark of the company that made the case for Omega, Louis Lang SA, Porrentruy, Switzerland.
 
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