Questions about performance of cal 552

cverstegen · Mar 6, 2020

Hello Everyone!

I recently had a vintage seamster, cal 552, serviced by a watchmaker claiming to be omega certified. I was told that I was paying ($550US) for a "complete overhaul of the movement" and that it would be working to "omega specifications" when the work was done. Because of some other questionable things I encountered while dealing with the watchmaker, I decided to get a timegrapher and see what it reads for the newly "overhauled" watch. I am posting pictures of what the timegrapher reads in five positions below. I know that this caliber is not supposed to be adjusted in five positions, bit I think its good to have them all posted anyway, yes?

I have three questions:

1) Does anyone know what Omega specifications for cal 552 are and if these readings fall within them? It seems that the amplitude is low and the beat error is way to high to me.

2) Should I expect that the watchmaker would have fixed these things, or is that something that one just can't fix in this 60 year old movement?

3) If this is outside of specs and I should expect that it be performing better, should I ask for a refund? Should I ask him to try again? Should I ask him to explain why it is not working better?

... I guess that was more than three questions... but three categories of questions!

Anyway, thanks in advance for input!

Dan S · Mar 6, 2020

I don't think you need to jump right to asking for a refund, since he may have done a perfectly good job cleaning and lubricating the movement as far as you know. Also, you can't necessarily expect the movement to meet the original specs, since we really don't know the condition of the movement. However, it can certainly be regulated to keep better average time, and maybe some other things can also be improved. Why don't you politely ask him if he can give the adjustment and testing some more careful attention.

X350 XJR · Mar 6, 2020

Anyone who would charge that kind of money for a full service and return a watch with a broken regulator screw should be disbarred.

Dan S · Mar 6, 2020

X350 XJR
Anyone who would charge that kind of money for a full service and return a watch with a broken regulator screw should be disbarred.

Good observation. To be honest, I didn't even look at the movement photo.

cverstegen · Mar 6, 2020

X350 XJR
Anyone who would charge that kind of money for a full service and return a watch with a broken regulator screw should be disbarred.

I’m sorry, I did not mean to be misleading with that movement picture! That was a photo of the movement before the service. I was just posting it to show what the moment was. I just took one now of the movement after the service and it looks like this... looks the same to me. Does this mean the regulator screw is still broken?

mzinski · Mar 6, 2020

cverstegen
Does this mean the regulator screw is still broken?

Yes. Low esolution image but notice how there is a screw in the circled location? You should have one too. Might be why this wasn’t better regulated.

cverstegen · Mar 6, 2020

mzinski
Yes. Low esolution image but notice how there is a screw in the circled location? You should have one too. Might be why this wasn’t better regulated.

Ah, yep, I see. The head and most of the body of the screw are missing. Thanks for pointing that out!

X350 XJR · Mar 6, 2020

The time keeping is really poor regardless of the broken screw.

ChrisN · Mar 7, 2020

Your machine is not able to hear your escapement very well as you have the watch in the holder the wrong way around and you've put a piece of tissue to protect the case. I would imagine this is why all your graphs look terrible.

The watch always stays in one location and you just turn the holder to achieve your different positions. Usually dial up in the holder works well so, turn the watch around so the crown is against the metal part of the holder as this is where the microphone is. Remove the tissue and have the crown pressed against the metal and try again. Wind the watch sixty times by the crown and that will give the full wind (0H) readings as a start.

Buying a timegrapher will just cause you to lose sleep, I'm afraid. As has been noted by @X350 XJR the missing screw doesn't imply the best of work though.

Good luck, Chris

cverstegen · Mar 7, 2020

ChrisN
Your machine is not able to hear your escapement very well as you have the watch in the holder the wrong way around and you've put a piece of tissue to protect the case. I would imagine this is why all your graphs look terrible.

The watch always stays in one location and you just turn the holder to achieve your different positions. Usually dial up in the holder works well so, turn the watch around so the crown is against the metal part of the holder as this is where the microphone is. Remove the tissue and have the crown pressed against the metal and try again. Wind the watch sixty times by the crown and that will give the full wind (0H) readings as a start.

Buying a timegrapher will just cause you to lose sleep, I'm afraid. As has been noted by @X350 XJR the missing screw doesn't imply the best of work though.

Good luck, Chris

Haha! You are right about it causing me to lose a little sleep 😀 What other way is there to check the amplitude and beat error though? ...or am I putting too much importance on those two things?

I’ll take the paper off and test it again, moving only the device and not the watch. I’ll see if the results are any different. Thanks for the tip.

Archer · Mar 7, 2020

cverstegen
1) Does anyone know what Omega specifications for cal 552 are and if these readings fall within them? It seems that the amplitude is low and the beat error is way to high to me.

2) Should I expect that the watchmaker would have fixed these things, or is that something that one just can't fix in this 60 year old movement?

3) If this is outside of specs and I should expect that it be performing better, should I ask for a refund? Should I ask him to try again? Should I ask him to explain why it is not working better?

As Chris has noted, based on how you are taking the readings, we can't really say if what you have it good or not, but so far it doesn't look great in my opinion.

These watches can certainly be made to meet Omega's specifications for them, and those are as follows:

All the numbers below are measured over 3 positions only, so dial up, crown down, and crown left.

Average daily rate range: -1 to +16 seconds per day

Delta at full wind (taken between 30 and 90 minutes after fully winding): 25 seconds

Delta at 24 hours after full wind: 35 seconds

Max. beat error: 0.8 ms

Minimum amplitude measured 24 hours after full wind: 160 degrees.

Note that in order to get accurate amplitude readings, the lift angle on the timing machine needs to be set to 49 degrees.

I will say these tolerances are very much on the "loose" side of things, and personally are not the standards I work to. It's not terribly difficult for any experienced watchmaker to exceed these standards, but what is required to get there will depend a great deal on the condition of the movement, and how much the customer is willing to spend.

Cheers, Al

cverstegen · Mar 7, 2020

Ok, I checked it out in those three positions without paper, and the microphone is definitely picking up the sound more clearly. The numbers are about the same though - well out of spec on the timing and beat error. I feel like I should not feel bad about taking it back and asking (politely, of course) that those things be corrected since I was told that they would get it working “to factory specifications.” I will also ask that they replace the broken regulator screw. I’ll see what they say. I’m a little hesitant to trust that they will do a good job anyway at this point, but that’s where I’ll start. Thanks for the input, everyone.

Eve · Mar 7, 2020

My wife has a Seamaster Cosmic with a 562 caliber movement, which is a calendar version.

I made a complete service by Omega Service Center last year, where they basicaly replaced like an entire movement. I exptected it to run very well, but to my surprise the watch was running really fast..
Normally i would regulate the movement by myself but since it is a monocoque case you need a special tool for it, so i let it be.
My wife was wearing it for the past few months every day, and i had to set the time like once a week, since the watch was really off.

I had enough of it and finally put it on "hobby set up" timegrapher and the reading was really high at ~40s/d. So i suspected that the watch could be magnetised.

Therefore i ran 2 rounds on my demagnetizer, an voila, the watch settled at only +8 s/d, which is completely acceptable.

i was taking the "real life" measurements every day for 1 week, with my phone, by photografing the watch, and calculating the deviation.
The positive surpise was, that the watch was going steady only +3,5 s/d! every single day, the same reading! well this is more than impressive!
i suspect the deviation from timegrapher could be caused by the fact that i didnt calibrate it.

So i guess, if the watchmaker is doing a good job, then these old movement are capable to perform very well! 👍

Peter_from_NL · Mar 7, 2020

I have a 552 bought around a half year ago. I do not even know the service history but it runs perfectly. So, yes, you should be able to get a properly running watch (after decent service). Good luck!

cverstegen · Mar 12, 2020

If anyone is interested... the condensed version of how this turned out:

I took the watch back to the watchmaker and asked him if he could improve the time keeping and beat error a little, and replace the broken screw. He said he could not fix the beat error because the movement was old (a different tune than the "it will work like it is new" that I was told originally) and could not replace the screw because they don't make those screws any more. I asked him why he did not mention the broken screw to me before. He told me he didn't have time to explain every detail to his customers and that the broken screw does not matter anyway, so he didn't feel the need to inform me about it.

He said a few other things that I found pretty disturbing for someone who is supposed to be a professional at this... but I don't think you all want to read a dissertation on the event.

In fairness, he also said that I could call back in a couple of months, and if he comes across one of the screws between now and then, he would hang onto it and install it for me. It took a while to get him to that point and I am not holding my breath for that outcome.

I guess the moral of the story is that for vintage Omega movement work in NYC, Manhattan Time Service is not the place to go, despite what their web page says.

My search for a good watchmaker in NYC continues!!! Suggestions are welcome! 😀

X350 XJR · Mar 12, 2020

If you used a credit care to pay you can try forcing a refund with a charge-back.

Dan S · Mar 12, 2020

cverstegen
If anyone is interested... the condensed version of how this turned out:

I took the watch back to the watchmaker and asked him if he could improve the time keeping and beat error a little, and replace the broken screw. He said he could not fix the beat error because the movement was old (a different tune than the "it will work like it is new" that I was told originally) and could not replace the screw because they don't make those screws any more. I asked him why he did not mention the broken screw to me before. He told me he didn't have time to explain every detail to his customers and that the broken screw does not matter anyway, so he didn't feel the need to inform me about it.

He said a few other things that I found pretty disturbing for someone who is supposed to be a professional at this... but I don't think you all want to read a dissertation on the event.

In fairness, he also said that I could call back in a couple of months, and if he comes across one of the screws between now and then, he would hang onto it and install it for me. It took a while to get him to that point and I am not holding my breath for that outcome.

I guess the moral of the story is that for vintage Omega movement work in NYC, Manhattan Time Service is not the place to go, despite what their web page says.

My search for a good watchmaker in NYC continues!!! Suggestions are welcome! 😀

I don't like to jump to conclusions, but based on what you wrote, I wouldn't be inclined to recommend that watchmaker. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be a lot of great choices for vintage watches in NYC.

Archer · Mar 12, 2020

cverstegen
He said he could not fix the beat error because the movement was old (a different tune than the "it will work like it is new" that I was told originally) and could not replace the screw because they don't make those screws any more.

Adjusting the beat error would take a few seconds only, as tis movement has an adjustable stud carrier, so clearly he just doesn't care.

Also, the screw is still available, so not only doesn't care but he's not exactly being truthful.

Cheers, Al

Lars99009 · Apr 29, 2022

Archer
Adjusting the beat error would take a few seconds only, as tis movement has an adjustable stud carrier, so clearly he just doesn't care.

Also, the screw is still available, so not only doesn't care but he's not exactly being truthful.

Cheers, Al

Hi Archer,Could you please tell me which screw is used to adjust the beat error. Thank you so much.

gbesq · Apr 29, 2022

Given the broken screw, I'm wondering if he even disassembled the movement. OP, if you can't find a competent, reasonably priced watchmaker in NYC, there are certainly more than a few in neighboring states that you can ship your watch(es) to for service.

Questions about performance of cal 552

cverstegen

Dan S

X350 XJR

Dan S

cverstegen

mzinski

cverstegen

X350 XJR

ChrisN

cverstegen

Archer

cverstegen

Eve

Peter_from_NL

cverstegen

X350 XJR

Dan S

Archer

Lars99009

gbesq

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