Questions about original Speedmasters tested by NASA, eg, what happened to them, etc..

As is well known, NASA tested Speedmasters from October 21st, 1964 to March 1st, 1965.

Does anyone know what happened to them? Do they still exist? Has any popped up?

NASA tested the 105.003. But which reference? Was it the 105.003-64?

Does anyone know the serial numbers of the watches that were tested?

Curious.


Photos from Revolution
https://revolutionwatch.com/what-wa...before-the-speedmasters-flight-qualification/



Looks like NASA initially intended to procure two Speedmasters without bracelets for testing, per this photo from [WatchProSite]:
https://www.watchprosite.com/omega/...ogram--repost-from-2016-/677.1054643.7607273/

According to the article, they bought three watches. "This is the first time you hear this. One each was kept as back-up, one each was for testing, and one each was given to the astronauts."

Slayton's Request to find a watch for the astronauts:


Source: WatchProSite

looks like they probably came from a store in Houston, based on this procurement request dated April 23, 1965.


[Edit: As pointed out in a post below, NASA did not purchase any watch directly from a local store. NASA went through the normal Federal procurement process, which was identifying requirements and making a competitive request from the public. Ragan stated that he needed to request from at least ten brands,

and he randomly selected ten known brands, even if some did not make chronographs. Source is the Revolution link in below post. NASA was noting that they would receive the watches from a local source, after a selection was made through the normal procurement process. ]

Wonder if Omega would know or be able to determine the serial numbers of these watches? Doesn't seem likely, although NASA was an unusual customer and someone may have noted the sale. Houston probably wasn't a huge market for Speedmasters in 1965. There might be some basis for hope that a list may turn up some day, if not an actual watch.

There was a space museum in Maryland that auctioned off a few X-33 NASA engraved Speedmasters back in about 2018 to 2019 (I bid to about 6.3K then gave up.) If NASA would delist (can't think of the official word) X-33 watches, why wouldn't they also have delisted the 105.003 watches and sold those to the public? At least that's my hypothesis.

New thought: I hypothesise that the Omega watches purchased by NASA did not come with bracelets.

This would partially explain why astronauts used JB Champion bracelets. While it could still be true that astronauts chose JB Champion because they would break easily if entangled, it does not mean they chose to replace Omega bracelets with JB Champion. If the watches did not come with bracelets, they wouldn't be replacing Omega. They would also need to buy bracelets to wear them.

1. Evidence is the procurement document for the first Omega watches to be tested. The document states watches without bands.


The price is 82.50 each.



2. The April 23, 1965 purchase request document lists 17 Omega's at 82.50 each. This suggests that these watches also did not include bracelets/bands. (Requested delivery date by April 30, 1965.)

3. The March 16, 1965 document that summarizes the astronauts hands-on testing, (the astronauts field tested one watch while Ragan conducted lab tests), includes a final request for NASA to buy 5 watches off the shelf immediately before making modifications suggested by the astronauts. One of the requested modifications was to design a better method for attaching the watch to the astronaut's wrist than the available commercial band. This suggests that the astronauts did not want or could not use the commercial bracelet, backing up the idea that NASA did not purchase bracelets with the first 17 watches.

EDIT: This also suggests that if the astronauts complained about the commercial bands, the watch they tested might have had a band/bracelet. But it might be that they were using their experience with their own watches. This illustrates why we have to be carefu with inferences.



Note that the purchase request for the first watches to be tested was for two watches from each brand. The Omega historian said Omega instead offered to send NASA three watches. In the March 16, 1965 document (that summarized the astronauts field testing), the document requested an immediate purchase of five watches, increasing the number of available watches to eight. This backs up the Omega historian's claim that Omega sent three watches for testing (one tested by Ragan, one tested by the astronauts, and one for backup).

Edit: in this article, Ragan states NASA bought three watches for testing:
https://timeandtidewatches.com/insight-james-h-ragan-and-his-omega-speedmasters/

I haven't seen any statement or document that proves that NASA purchased the requested five watches. It's possible, but as of now, it appears the April 23, 1965 purchase request for 17 more watches was the first order, bringing the total to 20, (in addition to any personal watches owned and possibly flown by the astronauts.)

New post, as the above is getting cluttered.

Another Ragan quote from A Man and His Watch.

"I purchased a total of ninety-six Omegas from the day we started buying them to the end of Apollo. Some of them burned up in the fire at Cape Canaveral, we lost some in airplane crashes, some were stolen, one or two ended up in the Banana River because the guys were water-skiing with them. But at the end, I took every one that had any history to it at all and pulled them off to the side. The best I recall it was about forty-four items in all. I said, 'Okay, these need to go to the Smithsonian, if they want them.'”

96 total watches
3 initial for testing
17 purchase request April 23, 1965

According to the Smithsonian, "NASA donated more than 50 of the watches to the Museum in the mid-1970s. Some 35 are at the Museum, with another 17 on loan." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/space-timekeepers-180957295/


NASA qualified the Speedmaster for flight on March 1, 1965.

According to statements (I don't have a source), NASA decided to issue Speedmasters to the Gemini III crew. Since the Gemini III launch was on March 23, 1965, before NASA purchased the 17 watches in April, either the two crew wore two watches from the original Ragan testing (presumably the backup one and the astronaut field tested one), or NASA went ahead and purchased 5 more before the April 23rd purchase request.

Personally, I don't think NASA purchased the 5 watches before the April 23rd purchase request. I think there was a suggestion to immediately get at least 5 more, but the fastest they could get a purchase order together was April 23rd, and they decided they needed 17, not just 5. There's little chance NASA just went out and bought 5 watches without a purchase order. The federal government doesn't work that way. Which means two watches from Ragan's testing were flown on Gemini III.

Tom Stafford wore one on Gemini VI and Stafford also wore it on his Apollo flights, which is pretty cool if true, that one of the first Omega Speedmasters flew into Space on both Gemini and Apollo.

And half of current Speedy owners won't even brush their teeth while wearing one, let alone wash their hands 😁

I’m pretty sure the invoice to NASA from Omega from the testing is on the internet somewhere, and the purchased locally is debunked due to this.

In fact they have documented all the mfg’s requested for testing and at least 1 declined to participate.


To the OP. The watches tested are lost to history at this point. It was destructive testing and some failed. Any that survived would not have been entered into inventory for disbursement.

I think you're referring to all brands, Omega, Rolex, Wittnauer, and Hamilton (rejected and not tested).

It seems accepted that Omega sent three watches. Only one was subjected to Ragan's tests, which would have been destructive (although the Speedmaster survived). The second Speedmaster was tested by the Astronauts, which was likely not destructive. The third Speedmaster was backup in case Ragan needed another sample to test. There's no info on that, whether it was tested or not. So it's posdible two Speedmasters survived.

Both the Rolex and Wittnauer were Valjoux 72s, and both quit working. The Rolex was reported to have hands that melted. So these were definitely destructive. The purchase order says NASA ordered two of each brand, but they may may also ordered three of each Rolex and Wittnauer. Regardless, I'm not interested in what happened to the non-Omegas.

So I think it is possible that there were two Omega's that were still functional. It's a guess as to whether they were used for Gemini III. However, if they weren't, where did those come from, because the 17 watches ordered weren't ordered until after Gemini III launched.

I agree. NASA did not go out and just buy them from a store. But they might still have come from a Houston store, as the purchase order stated that NASA was willing to receive watches from the local Omega dealer. Omega should know this in their archives, I think.

Edit: Petros Protopapas quoted from: https://www.watchprosite.com/omega/...ogram--repost-from-2016-/677.1054643.7607273/

"Thanks to our good friend, Mr James Ragan...we were able to gather much, much more information than previously available. So, with all due respect, the story is much different than published in earlier books. It also is very different from the legendary "A Time Capsule" book... But with the access to all the new and amazing materials and archives in Houston and Washington, we were able to piece together the correct story, a story that is different than published up to now. "

I'm finding some of this out myself, as the internet never forgets. It can be confusing distinguishing between fact and myth/speculations from previous years. Also, it struck me that PP was very excited to share what Omega had learned from Mr. Ragan, NASA archives and the Smithsonian. Meaning, Omega didn't have much information in their archives. They still have a lot they can share because they were able to get access that perhaps the public cannot easily get. But it also means that we are not solely dependent upon the Omega museum, as NASA and the Smithsonian for in theory accessible if we know what to request (probably take years and end up just replicating at best what Omega already has.)

No, I don't, but someone might.

I'm currently looking at these.

Here's John Young's watch.

Notice the Z## hand engraving. This isn't on other flown watches. This is number 1. I'm wondering what the Z number refers to and it isn't on other watches.

Stafford's and Conrad's.



Reagan kept a record of what was flown. He serviced each watch afterwards and before they were reused. I don't have this yet but it's on the web somewhere. I don't think he has the tested watches in the list, or all the watches.


Source: https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/figure-7-chrono-and-docsjennifer-levasseurjpg

Receive would be pick up from, not purchased from IMHO. IE Omega would tell a local retailer to give 2 to NASA and they would credit the retailer or send 3 more to them in the next batch to simplify delivery.

At the end of the day those watches are lost to time.

Great article. I'm going to quote it here in case the link dies in the future:

“Watch collectors are going to know this but I was always concerned with these heavy bands on those watches because once these guys were in their suits and it’s blown up, they were like human bulls in a china shop. So I started looking around and found a JB Champion band. And I used that on every training watch. Those things would break right where the pins went in, if the astronauts got caught [on something] , you know? I broke off many of those things, 2,000 of those JB Champion bands. You can’t buy them anymore, they don’t exist anymore. But I never got an astronaut’s arm torn up.” [italics added]