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Questions about original Speedmasters tested by NASA, eg, what happened to them, etc..
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pdxleaf
·About time we got the complete story... it has been sixty years and since 2017 we all saw this message on the NASA website:
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pdxleaf
·I'm breaking up a post from above to discuss how many watches NASA bought and when. I plan to edit this if and when there are more details. (The lists are on the web somewhere.)
Another Ragan quote from A Man and His Watch.
"I purchased a total of ninety-six Omegas from the day we started buying them to the end of Apollo. Some of them burned up in the fire at Cape Canaveral, we lost some in airplane crashes, some were stolen, one or two ended up in the Banana River because the guys were water-skiing with them. But at the end, I took every one that had any history to it at all and pulled them off to the side. The best I recall it was about forty-four items in all. I said, 'Okay, these need to go to the Smithsonian, if they want them.'”
96 total watches
Oct, 1964: 3 initial for testing; 105.003-XX
April 23, 1965: 17 purchase request; 105.003-XX
1966:
1967:
Sept 12, 1968: 105.012/145.012
After the April 23 PR, "[NASA] ordered four times until the end of Apollo program. Every time they ordered, they sent the letter mentioning why they needed them." -[WatchProSite]
"1966, 1967, NASA ordered again and the Omega agent in USA delivered at first (while stocks lasted) the 105.003 models. Then, later, when the first “professional” model was available in the USA, the agent switched deliveries to the 105.012/145.012." -[WatchProSite]
"...so by the time NASA made its last order for the Apollo program in 1968, Omega USA supplied still the 105.012/145.012 all with the legendary cal. 321. Every single watch NASA purchased during the Gemini and Apollo procurement for these programs were all cal. 321 Speedmasters - 105.003, 105.012, 145.012." -[WatchProSite]
"The last time NASA purchased Speedmasters for the original Apollo program was on 9/12/1968, based on the first test result.[i.e. Ragan's first test in 1964-65]" - [WatchProSite]
According to the Smithsonian, "NASA donated more than 50 of the watches to the Museum in the mid-1970s. Some 35 are at the Museum, with another 17 on loan." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/space-timekeepers-180957295/
Reference for Space watches from Robert Jackson:
https://lookerstudio.google.com/u/0...SPtEORXDUJUBVCsjDPMDk4SRQq2CBnKQ_RZi-bB1EK0cw
Link to all the Speedmasters held by the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
https://airandspace.si.edu/search/gps?keys=speedmaster#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=speedmaster&gsc.page=1
Another Ragan quote from A Man and His Watch.
"I purchased a total of ninety-six Omegas from the day we started buying them to the end of Apollo. Some of them burned up in the fire at Cape Canaveral, we lost some in airplane crashes, some were stolen, one or two ended up in the Banana River because the guys were water-skiing with them. But at the end, I took every one that had any history to it at all and pulled them off to the side. The best I recall it was about forty-four items in all. I said, 'Okay, these need to go to the Smithsonian, if they want them.'”
96 total watches
Oct, 1964: 3 initial for testing; 105.003-XX
April 23, 1965: 17 purchase request; 105.003-XX
1966:
1967:
Sept 12, 1968: 105.012/145.012
After the April 23 PR, "[NASA] ordered four times until the end of Apollo program. Every time they ordered, they sent the letter mentioning why they needed them." -[WatchProSite]
"1966, 1967, NASA ordered again and the Omega agent in USA delivered at first (while stocks lasted) the 105.003 models. Then, later, when the first “professional” model was available in the USA, the agent switched deliveries to the 105.012/145.012." -[WatchProSite]
"...so by the time NASA made its last order for the Apollo program in 1968, Omega USA supplied still the 105.012/145.012 all with the legendary cal. 321. Every single watch NASA purchased during the Gemini and Apollo procurement for these programs were all cal. 321 Speedmasters - 105.003, 105.012, 145.012." -[WatchProSite]
"The last time NASA purchased Speedmasters for the original Apollo program was on 9/12/1968, based on the first test result.[i.e. Ragan's first test in 1964-65]" - [WatchProSite]
According to the Smithsonian, "NASA donated more than 50 of the watches to the Museum in the mid-1970s. Some 35 are at the Museum, with another 17 on loan." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/space-timekeepers-180957295/
Reference for Space watches from Robert Jackson:
https://lookerstudio.google.com/u/0...SPtEORXDUJUBVCsjDPMDk4SRQq2CBnKQ_RZi-bB1EK0cw
Link to all the Speedmasters held by the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
https://airandspace.si.edu/search/gps?keys=speedmaster#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=speedmaster&gsc.page=1
Edited:
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pdxleaf
·NASA Speedmaster List, including watches held by the Smithsonian
https://1drv.ms/x/c/05794c5baea67ba3/EYMF2DDhzE1HgHkPldu8u74BK_nYINcMvHIBRGlAHT5tFQ?e=tEU0rM
Working copy
https://1drv.ms/x/c/05794c5baea67ba3/EYMF2DDhzE1HgHkPldu8u74BK_nYINcMvHIBRGlAHT5tFQ?e=tEU0rM
Working copy
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pdxleaf
·3. Why was Breitling not included, as Scott Carpenter had done the effort to request a bespoke 24 hours dial/movement Navitimer 806/24?
Probably because readily available "off the shelf" chronographs were requested, but Breitling had "regular" Navitimer chronographs...
The ten brands that received the NASA request were selected almost arbitrarily, but anyone could have sent in a watch for testing.
“I had to come up with [the list]. I could add that my requirement was to get ten brands and they could go out. And this was all published. And not only we sent them out for those ten brands, I asked them if they would want to put in a proposal, same cost and all that. But anybody that made watches back then, if they wish, they could get a copy of that. It was not limited to those at all. But it was easy because you know, they had it in all the department stores. Whether they made a chronograph or not I doubt it, but at least I had the ten names.”https://revolutionwatch.com/reliving-history-with-james-ragan-nasas-man-behind-the-moonwatch/ from @mountainunder.
Edit: The two references also tested by Ragan:
Source: https://www.fratellowatches.com/the-other-nasa-tested-watches/
Edited:
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pdxleaf
·1. By the end of February 1965, we see John Young training wearing an Omega Speedmaster 105.003, so testing must have been done!
Official date of NASA completing the qualification test report was 1965, March 1.
Official date of NASA announcing the Omega Speedmaster as flight-qualified chronograph was 1965, June 1.
2. During Gemini III, besides an Accutron Astronaut GMT pilot watch, both Virgil Grissom & John Young wore an Omega Speedmaster 105.003, probably "survivors" of NASA testing as the first batch of 17 Omega Speedmaster 105.003-63 was only delivered on 1965, April 23...
What's more,I think Ragan's lab tested watch might have been put into service/inventory for later use. It would have to have been serviced, but that could have been made wearable.
"After an intense procedure that went from October 21st, 1964 to March 1st, 1965, only the Omega Speedmaster survived and NASA declared it operational for space exploration and flight certified: ‘Operational and environmental tests of the three selected chronographs have been completed; and, as a result of the test, Omega chronographs have been calibrated and issued to three members of the Gemini Titan III crews.’" [italics added] Source: https://monochrome-watches.com/the-...n-former-nasa-engineer-responsible-moonwatch/
According to what is currently thought, there were 20 watches in inventory before the next order in 1966. This could be the 3 plus 17. Absent evidence of another procurement, it would have to be the 3 Ragan watches. Petros said NASA ordered watches 4 times ( after qualifying), 23 April 65, again in 1966, 1967 and 1968 (afterwards were X-33s.) Even if the Gemini III wore their personal 105.003 watches (doubtful), those would not have been put into inventory.
Edited:
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pdxleaf
·A digitally remastered book of Gemini photos is available (no affiliation)
https://www.space.com/entertainment...orgeous-new-coffee-table-photo-book-exclusive
https://www.space.com/entertainment...orgeous-new-coffee-table-photo-book-exclusive
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Alex Cheers
··wtb a Gemini 4A digitally remastered book of Gemini photos is available (no affiliation)
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pdxleaf
·
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Alex Cheers
··wtb a Gemini 4Nice. Thoughts? Assume the resolution is great. Any surprises? Good Speedy content?
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SpeedyPhill
·Both " Remastered " books are great but I guess they don't give the actual NASA photo number and in some cases probably the date-of-release instead of the date the photo was actually taken ?
Also when checking press photos, the date is mostly the date it appeared in the newspaper, while the photo was actually taken one or two days earlier...
Anyway, looking at NASA photos is an esoteric research form, called "reading the photos"... I will make a separate post about this in the topic:
Examples of photos You won't see anywhere:
US Navy John Young during Gemini III weight & balance check, taken March 3, 1965
.
Also when checking press photos, the date is mostly the date it appeared in the newspaper, while the photo was actually taken one or two days earlier...
Anyway, looking at NASA photos is an esoteric research form, called "reading the photos"... I will make a separate post about this in the topic:
Examples of photos You won't see anywhere:
US Navy John Young during Gemini III weight & balance check, taken March 3, 1965
.
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SpeedyPhill
·@Alex Cheers
The same image but scanned from an actual KODAK paper NASA photo S66-62782
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NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster 105.003-64 n° 23 ( Edwin Aldrin )
The same image but scanned from an actual KODAK paper NASA photo S66-62782
.
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Alex Cheers
··wtb a Gemini 4Both " Remastered " books are great but I guess they don't give the actual NASA photo number and in some cases probably the date-of-release instead of the date the photo was actually taken ?
Also when checking press photos, the date is mostly the date it appeared in the newspaper, while the photo was actually taken one or two days earlier...
Edited:
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SpeedyPhill
·Thanks for the update, although I have most photos, I might have to take a look at the book 👍
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SpeedyPhill
·Bought the book and a promise I'll publish my full listings before it has been 10 years... April 2017
.
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spacemission
·Well in September 1964, Donald "Deke" Slayton's memorandum expressing the need for an "off the shelf" durable accurate wrist chronograph for Gemini & Apollo flight crews was written and quotes were sent to 10 different brands with a deadline of 1964, October 21.
Only 4 brands responded, Hamilton, Longines-Wittnauer, Omega, Rolex but Hamilton had sent stopwatches...
☕
What's lesser known ?
1. How many Omega Speedmaster chronographs did NASA receive in October 1964?
Guesstimate was at least 3, as 2 were already worn by Gemini III on 1965, March 23. Moreover, Gemini III backup crew were also spotted wearing an Omega Speedmaster: Walter Schirra (his personal CK2998-4 by March 1965 bezelless) & Thomas Stafford (3rd survivor Speedmaster of the NASA tests?)
2. Did the NASA tests survivor Omega Speedmaster chronographs get an official NASA-number?
3. Why was Breitling not included, as Scott Carpenter had done the effort to request a bespoke 24 hours dial/movement Navitimer 806/24?
Probably because readily available "off the shelf" chronographs were requested, but Breitling had "regular" Navitimer chronographs...
4. As far as we know there are NO PHOTOS of the original NASA testing as the well-known photo series of 35 images showing NASA engineer James Ragan handling Speedmaster chronographs show "Professional" version Speedies, so at least 1966, probably 1969 images showing "decontamination" of space-flown Speedies!
☕
Most of Omega-to-NASA deliveries is well-known and by checking official NASA photos we can 99% be sure of:
1. By the end of February 1965, we see John Young training wearing an Omega Speedmaster 105.003, so testing must have been done!
Official date of NASA completing the qualification test report was 1965, March 1.
Official date of NASA announcing the Omega Speedmaster as flight-qualified chronograph was 1965, June 1.
2. During Gemini III, besides an Accutron Astronaut GMT pilot watch, both Virgil Grissom & John Young wore an Omega Speedmaster 105.003, probably "survivors" of NASA testing as the first batch of 17 Omega Speedmaster 105.003-63 was only delivered on 1965, April 23...
3. NASA quickly needed a second batch Omega Speedmaster chronographs delivery as 17 were insufficient with, by the end of 1965, 30 astronauts on "active flight status"...
More here:
And even more here:
.
I have dived with a moonwatch 145.022 but not with a navitimer 806 or 809.
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drose224
·.
Omega did send 3 Speedies for testing in October 1964.
Photographic proof = Young & Grissom wearing one in February 1965 and during Gemini III. Backup Thomas Stafford wearing the third !
There're more details of each of the Omega Speedmaster chronographs gifted in April 1976 to the NASM Washington D.C.
For instance, NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster 105.003-64 S/N 24 was only used during training...
Amazingly, during loans six have been stolen, with the S/N 34 worn by Apollo 7 CMP Donn Eisele returned in November 2017
Not among these six: Apollo 11 LMP Edwin Aldrin's Speedmaster 105.012-65 S/N 43 was "lost-in-transit" between Houston Texas and NASM
Ongoing esoteric research:
MoonwatchUniverse completed a full listing of the Gemini-Apollo-Skylab-ASTP era astronauts' Speedies.
Working, read completed, an alphabetical listing which shows all*** Gemini-Apollo-Skylab-ASTP era astronauts' dates of receiving their first NASA-issued Speedmaster, based on photographic proof !
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*** a few exceptions: e.g. thus far I have never seen a photograph of Charles Bassett wearing a NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster chronograph. Fellow Gemini IX prime crew member Elliot See received a NASA-issued Speedmaster during his time as a backup for Gemini V.
On February 28, 1966 both Elliot See & Charles Bassett died in a NASA T-38 (NASA 901) crash at Lambert Field St. Louis - Missouri.
USMC Major Clifton Williams received a NASA-issued Speedie in the summer of 1966, died in a NASA T-38 crash on October 5, 1967.
.
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SpeedyPhill
·As NASA got 3 Speedies to be tested, we can assumle they also got 3 Rolex and 3 Longines...
Anyway after testing, between April 1965 and December 1968, NASA procured a total of 97 Omega Speedmaster chronographs !
Model 6049 = Gemini P/N CF55033 + Apollo P/N SEB12100039-001
Model 6126 = Apollo P/N SEB12100039-002
👩🚀...
Anyway after testing, between April 1965 and December 1968, NASA procured a total of 97 Omega Speedmaster chronographs !
Model 6049 = Gemini P/N CF55033 + Apollo P/N SEB12100039-001
Model 6126 = Apollo P/N SEB12100039-002
👩🚀...