Hi,

I have a question regarding my Seamaster and the dial and I hope that you guys can help me.

I had a fixed deal for the watch from Düsseldorf over a contact from ebay (we closed that deal outside of ebay, thats why I have canceld the auction today am)

Suddenly the guy turend up and canceld becasue he is believing my dial is a fake one.
From my point of view my Seamaster dial cannot be a fake, because it has the typical lume flashing from the old lume. Like my Speedmaster but it has no Swiss Made Printing at 6. that's the potentail buyer from Düsseldorf canceld the deal a couple of minutes ago.

Can somebody please help me with that missing Swiss Made Prinit and confirm the story I got from an Omgea expert from the UK.
He told me in decmeber 2012 that during the time when Omega produced the Seamaster for the Navy, Omega issued 3 Dial-Versions of the Big Triangle to the NAVY.
1. Swiss Made Only at 6
2. T - Swiss Made at 6
3. Without any Swiss made at 6 like mine

He also told me that my watch was produced for the Military even without the T below the Omega Automatic printing and engragraving (Military number on the back) becasue Omega supplied the watches to a service company which changed the Back case and did the T-Printing on the dial.


Thank you very much for your help.

Best regards,
Peter

 

Sorry to hear your sale didn't go through.

I'm not sure about this. Everything seems to check out, with the possible exception of the writing (or lack thereof) at the bottom of the dial. I have never seen a dial without a T AND without Swiss Made at the bottom. I just went through my literature and can find no mention of it. But, again, it all seems ok otherwise.

This does NOT mean however that it doesn't exist. Or possible covered by the retaining ring? One thing I have learned is that you never stop learning.

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

The T SWISS MADE T is there on that dial just hiding a bit below the rahaut/inner bezel. Don't you have a loupe? It should be pretty apparent to you even with the naked eye if I can make it out from just this small photo.

As for this "He also told me that my watch was produced for the Military even without the T below the Omega Automatic printing and engragraving (Military number on the back) ..."

A bit hard to prove but it could be that these were produced in slightly greater numbers than the UK Ministry of Defense required and so were then sold as civilian models, just like the IWC Mark XI or Breguet and Dodane Type XXI chronos--not all were issued for military use and so either they would be sold as unused surplus by the purchaser (i.e. the armed force in question) or returned to Omega for a credit and then Omega would resell these watches themselves.

Your watch does have the retrofitted screw down crown, which is something the British MOD demanded due to shallow water failure of the original Niad push-in crowns. But this is also something that Omega may have done at service on their own.

Finally, I would say that any Omega dial without "SWISS MADE" or "SWISS" during this period would have been redone and in the case of a Military Seamaster, this is not unheard of. But this is also not relevant to your watch, as it is in fact there below "6"--you just have to really look for it closely!
Good luck,
T.

 

Hi Peter

Are you 100% sure the 'T Swiss' wording is missing and as Roger quite rightly suggests , not just obscured....

I would expect your dial (with that movement serial) to have 'T Swiss'.....'Swiss Made' only dials were on the early 165024's with the naiad crowns and even then , rarely seen.

As far as any Military connection , have a read of this: http://vintageomegaforum.com/documents/byguile/byguile.html


and then pull the Extract of the Archive for your watch....but I think you will be disappointed in this case.

If you would like to email me a close up of the dial in situ , I'll happily check it for you....

Best - Neil

 

And here's a pic to show you what I mean about T SWISS MADE T "hiding" below the rehaut:



Best,
T.

 

Hi,

thank you very much for your reply and the great effort to check your literature.
The idea with the inner ring could be the solution. Maybe it is under it. I need to buy a lupe.

Best regards,
Peter

 

Hi all, Thank you all for your answers. I am going to scan the watch on my scanner and I send Neil a scan, becasue with my Iphone I am not able to make close up picture. update asp. Best regards, Peter

For now I am feeling

 

Tomvox - I'll be buggered if can see that on that tiny little picture ! I'm only on the tablet so will have to check on the laptop. I know I've hit middle age but ...

Let's assume it's there and everything is fine. Not sure we can assume this is military, however, as flame says. My question still stands however - were there dials without a T and without anything on the bottom of the dial as was suggested to Peter?

 

I certainly do not assume without any further proof this watch is military, as there are no military markings.
No Circle T + non-MOD spec caseback = non-military issue, IMO. Although there is no real way to know 100% without an extract from Omega, as theoretically a dial could have been swapped for a civilian (and caseback as well, I suppose, or heavily polished). This has happened quite a lot with Rolex MilSubs but somehwat less frequently with Mil SM 300s--then again there are fewer RN SM 300s!
And no SWISS MADE (or possibly SWISS) = redial for me, which the MOD was known to do. Not the case here, though.
As as for the picture: did you click the link for the bigger version?
Best,
T.

 

Hi, I am very sorry for the bad quality of my iphone pictures, but I have looked with the whole family and a chlidreen lupe to find any printing at 6, nope.
Again thank you very much for the great support from you guys. Did anyone knows a seriously collector or watchmaker in munich germany where I can go on Monday to extract the movement and the glas including the inner ring. I hope the attached picture is better to see the dial.

Best regards, Peter

 

What's funny is that it is more clear in the other, smaller picture:



Also strange that you are not able to make it out while you're holding it.
But maybe I have had too much peyote this morning.
Good luck,
T.

 

Hi Peter

Here is an example of one of mine (which has been serviced by Omega UK) - look at the way the 'T Swiss' markings are obscured....



HAGWE -

Best - Neil

 

Tom, great investigation, could be that you have fou d the Top of the E, refering to this dial picture here without the innering on it.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/seamaster-300-dial-question-349623.html

 

Thank you Neil! great watch and I am feeling now more confident about my dial, and if i compare the picture from the watchuseek forum with the dimension of the innerring it could be 100% right that the Swiss Made Printing is under the ring. I only understand why on some innering version the printing is visible and not.

Best regards, Peter

 

it also very interesting to see that Neils picture is approved by the picture of an Big Triangle in this thread
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/seamaster-300-dial-question-349623.html
look at the last picture same thing with mine dial

 

peter, we had contact before about your sea 300. i will tell you my thoughts: your watch is not military issue. it`s a civil version. i`ve heard so many stories about military "special" deliveries to make up stories and to command a premium in sales ( the old tale about the white dial IWC MK 11 springs to mind; what was written and argued over decades about this special version ( especially argued by the guys, who had them in their mil collection,like me ).....in the end the original story, that a london dealer bought the remaining spares for peanuts from the military and made quite a few watches out of the remaining spares. and at one point he ran out of the original black dials and had new dials made. to make it more interesting, he had white dials too. different font, no amag blancs....the story is on the net.) if you have a lot of explaining to do, to sell a watch, both parties will not be happy and trouble will arise later. that is number one. just stick to the civil version; it`s rare enough.second: i`ve not seen a non script under the 6 version and it would make no sense. it will not be a special MoD printed version from an UK based dial printer. the fonts here are omega fonts . the MoD fonts are different. and my last point: your lume is shiny. somebody tinkered with it. apart from the missing keyholes at 6 and 12, that were part of omegas lume application at the time. your dial will be later and i suspect an non-original dial. in your interest i hope i`m wrong. for a goods watchmaker in munich google ralf meertz, prannerstr. 13 in the city center. good luck and kind regards. achim