Was sitting here and reading through previous blogs on speedy101, and got thinking. How many sellers do actually have legit proof of service? Looking at price estimated on the speedy site, and difference between running and good is $1000+, but reading the descriptions at the bottom, only difference between running and good categories is service. This is at least how it is written. There may be more to it to warrant such a price difference, as service usually is $400-$500, so that is what prompted me to see just how many sellers can prove that they got service on the watch

I read a lot of times that service was done, but no one had proof of any sort. Some are watch makers and did their own service, so they can whip up some sort of a receipt, but then again, so can a lot of other folks. I read many times here that it is a very good idea to get full service done on vintage watch once you buy it as you have no idea of the service history. That brings me back again to the point above, if service cannot be proven most of the time, and it is recommended to get it done regardless, why such a difference in price between the 2 categories.

Not trying to question speedy101 for sure, as it is tremendous wealth of info, just more curious about just how much stock people put into proof of service when buying watches, and how much of a price difference each person is willing to make for serviced vs non-serviced.

 

I think a lot of this rides on context. If you are looking at an eBay auction that says "watch just serviced!" but has no receipt or service papers from the manufacturer I would certainly raise an eyebrow.

This is why it is so important to "buy the seller." Sellers who have reputations for reliability and honesty can probably be taken at their word. Less established sellers could supply the name of the watchmaker used and any documentation provided at time of service. For example, I had a vintage Rolex 1002 serviced at Manhattan Time Service over the summer. They provided me a written invoice, a printed credit card receipt, and a one year warranty card signed and dated. If I were to sell the watch, I would include those documents when claiming it had been serviced. I imagine that would satisfy even the most discerning buyer.

 

I keep my receipts for service. Useful in case the watches should need work under warrany, or to document in case I sell, or as a reminder to myself of when they should be due for service again.

 

I know this question is in the context of vintage Speedmasters, but the circumstance applies more broadly I guess. As an occasional seller, I for one keep all documentation of services that were undertaken on the watches I own - but then I am taking about relatively modern watches so my burden is over a shorter time period, not 30, 40 or 50 years. I guess extrapolating from @cvrle1's question, my further question would be whether one service of a watch expunges any past misdemeanours, or is it more like a car where a consistent service history is more important than just the last service. In that case, @cimo's point to buy the seller is very relevant. Perhaps then, what speedy101 should be attributing extra value to is the seller's reputation, or more importantly, the service provenance of the watch, not just whether is was serviced just before it was listed for sale.

Interestingly, when I took one of my Breitlings in for a service recently, the service centre knew all about the service history of the watch, even though the service before had been done in another country. They also knew about the service history before I was the owner. I know many say to never have your vintage watch touched by the manufacturers service centres, but their records certainly would add to a buyer's surety and it would be doubtful if this information was readily available from a series of unconnected independents. Pity then that the manufacturers are not so good a only lightly touching precious vintage pieces.

 

Sorry, yes, this was more of a broad question, and not specific to speedmasters. i just used speedy cause it got me thinking about general question

 

I buy from eBay with the assumption that sellers lie and that the piece will need a service regardless of whatever spurious claim the seller makes. I am sure we have all seen 'checked out by an Omega trained watchmaker' or 'running great' etc. It's usually crap. Unless there is documentary proof I just don't believe it and price a service into my outlay. It is a good idea to invest in a cheap timing machine as these can tell you very quickly is a watch is really healthy or not and tells you in seconds whether something really needs work. I have recently bought 3 separate pieces, all supposedly running fine or serviced and none had amplitude above 200deg and all had visible dirt in the movement. The sellers just plain lie but that is ok if the price is right.

 

In my experience Breitling's official servicing is just as ruinous to value as Omegas. I have seen several 1960s 806 and 809 models with brand new dials with all the charm and value wiped off them. Thankfully they werent mine

 

The Speedmaster is quite a good one to use as an example. The movement can run but there could be worn parts in it that need replacing at a service. If it is a 321 movement, that could easily add several hundred $/£/€ to the service cost.

 

I don't disagree. Thankfully all mine are modern-ish.

 

So many sellers say a watch has been serviced when it hasn't that I give no value to a service when buying. Even a service doc doesn't convince me, unless I know the seller.

If I'm selling, I don't expect to fully recoup the service cost - even with receipts & old parts.

Such is the marketplace.

 

This is a tough one. I'm not sure you can make such broad assumptions in either direction.

For example, some of the nicest vintage movements I've ever serviced had never been touched - the watches were worn initially when bought new, and when they stopped working they were tossed in a drawer. In this case, the fact they didn't have regular servicing (often done by less than careful watchmakers to be kind) meant that not much was hacked up by...a hack watchmaker.

I've also serviced watches that "ran from new for 60 years and kept great time!" that were completely worn out inside. And finally I've had watches that were serviced regularly, that either looked/performed well when the work done was competent, or were a mess because it wasn't.

The quality of service over decades is often quite spotty. I know people on forums talk about finding an "old school watchmaker" and I understand what they are thinking. Not saying that all of the "old school" guys are like this by any means, but keep in mind when every small town had 4 or 5 watchmakers, they were all competing with each other, and a full service was $5. It wasn't a luxury item being serviced in many cases, but just a regular wrist watch. We often hear that watchmakers (even brands) didn't bother putting the right case backs on the right watches, and the lack of care often goes well beyond that. I often disassemble vintage watches to see that someone has taken tweezers or a screwdriver and scratched a number into every plate, because they "cared" enough to keep the parts from several watches they were servicing at the same time sorted out. Great idea to keep them sorted, but not the method most would advocate today. Practices that were totally acceptable back in the 50's and 60's are not necessarily so now.

I would not necessarily be looking for evidence of constant servicing over the life of the watch - constant doesn't mean good. What I would be looking for is evidence of recent servicing from someone who is going to do more than just clean and oil. Cleaning and oiling doesn't replace worn parts, or bush worn holes, polish pivots, etc. That's more restoration work (for the movement, not the dial, hands or case) and certainly not every watchmaker does this. There should be evidence that it was serviced, and by someone who is known to do good work - just one example of a watch that came to me immediately after being serviced by someone else, and it was running poorly...

Several fibers found inside:



Too little oil:



No oil and debris:



Too much oil:



Too little oil again:



Way too much oil:



Worn:



Worn:



Worn:



Worn:



So budget servicing is so for a reason, as they may not be taking care of the problems inside the watch, and the work can be sloppy.

Cheers, Al

 

Some good points from all for sure so far. Thanks. I personally dont put too much stock into watch having service, due to all the different possibilities everyone mentioned. Unless service was done by someone who is well known in the watch community, like Al for example, I would still get full service done. Small price to pay for piece of mind.

Question to Al, if I may
Do you have any pointers or hints in regards seeing how good of a job watchmaker did with just completed service, without taking apart the movement? Most likely hard to do, as everything is so hidden and overlapping, but maybe there are some signs that could be easy to spot perhaps?

 

I am almost more likely to buy from someone on ebay if they say service history unknown rather than claim it without proof. In a rare occasion that I have that was claimed to have been serviced by previous owner and I am looking to part with it. I typically would at least get it looked at by watchmaker and possibly timed. But yes I try to save the papers.

 

Archer did a wonderful thread on what us amatures can and should look for. Maybe he or someone else can post a link, I can't seem to find it now.

 

Probably this one. It's very informative.

Cheers, Chris

 

With my cars I keep up with service and maintain files. I'm now doing this for my watches. I've found that selling a car privately with service records improves my negotiation position somewhat. I am very fussy about who works on my cars. i hope I've chosen the right watchmakers. I would hope the paperwork I retain on my watches would mean something. Service these days on vintage isn't cheap.

 

Firstly, is disagree strongly that the difference between "running" and "good" on sp101 is just a service. I read it that watches in both categories should have correct parts (deductions for those parts that are service or incorrect), but the quality of each part should be higher on the good category. A dull dial with mouldy looking lume, versus a black or nicely patinated dial with orange lume. A slightly polished versus unpolished case, or a chipped versus relatively undamaged bezel for instance.

Regarding services, I keep a spreadsheet of my watches (purchase price, date, source, notes on arrival, serial, service date, by whom etc). I only really use two watch makers, one sends a service receipt which I keep and the other has an online record of all your services.

If a watch is advertised as serviced, unless there's proof. It hasnt been serviced as far as I'm concerned. In fact I prefer it not to be serviced, ideally sat in a drawer for some years, then I'll get it done properly.

 

I keep my service receipts in case I end up selling down the road.