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Photo ID

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Foo2rama
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Sounds good, as those cities have the most restrictive gun laws in the country but for some reason, as a result, the highest rate of gun crimes. Those Gun-Free Zone signs just aren't working! It's almost as if criminals, by nature, don't care about the law. So surely, giving people who follow the law more ability to defend themselves and their families is a good thing!


So more gun owners in those cities will make it safer right?
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The Father
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Zapatta Zapatta
This dude first asks college students, then goes to black neighborhood and asks African Americans about IDs and voting. The white savior complex is so offensive I can't believe anyone actually thinks that way. As a European, it is inconceivable to me that someone is pushing to vote without personal documents.


asking for a friend.

In Europe, say France for example, are black individuals called African French ? In Norway, are black individuals called African Norwegian ?

Nobody has ever called me Dutch American, is my heritage being slighted ?
 
Dan S
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Zapatta Zapatta
This dude first asks college students, then goes to black neighborhood and asks African Americans about IDs and voting. The white savior complex is so offensive I can't believe anyone actually thinks that way. As a European, it is inconceivable to me that someone is pushing to vote without personal documents.
It may sound reasonable to a European, but it's not the norm in the US, and in general Americans are pretty resistant to being required to show ID, or being monitored by the government. Europeans are much more accepting of government oversight.

The producer of a YouTube video can selectively show whichever clips he likes to make a point, but regarding motives for pushing these laws, there is absolutely no question that it's motivated by party politics. Anything that makes it harder to vote in general (ID, no voting by mail, fewer polling stations in densely populated areas, etc.) demonstrably skews the vote more towards the R party. It's a very clever, longstanding, and successful strategy. And if you're in the minority, with demographics working against you, your only hope is the skew the vote. That party (with strategy developed and funded by the Koch brothers) has been extremely strategic in manipulating our ridiculous system of gerrymandered districts, winner-take-all electoral votes, etc. Except for one very stupid error when a former President told his supporters not to vote by mail, which may have cost him the election.
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hen
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The Father The Father
asking for a friend.

In Europe, say France for example, are black individuals called African French ? In Norway, are black individuals called African Norwegian ?

Nobody has ever called me Dutch American, is my heritage being slighted ?
Do you eat herring, wear cloggs and carry around a wheel of Gouda or a windmill in public? That might help😉.
 
Foo2rama
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The Father The Father
asking for a friend.

In Europe, say France for example, are black individuals called African French ? In Norway, are black individuals called African Norwegian ?

Nobody has ever called me Dutch American, is my heritage being slighted ?
When your people are stolen from their homeland and sold into slavery for generations you will be able to answer the question.

Until then ponder this: I’d call the Dutch bloody bell ends as they deserve it, but I’m pretty sure they take that as a slight so I respect what they prefer to be called. I.e. don’t be a douche nozzle and respect what people prefer.

Seems pretty easy to me.
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Zapatta
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The Father The Father
asking for a friend.

In Europe, say France for example, are black individuals called African French ? In Norway, are black individuals called African Norwegian ?

Nobody has ever called me Dutch American, is my heritage being slighted ?

IMHO they are Americans and I don't like segregations but they prefer to be called African-Americans so I respect that.
 
Zapatta
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
When your people are stolen from their homeland and sold into slavery for generations you will be able to answer the question.

To be honest, that's bullshit! They were sold by their own people who fought tribal wars and sold them to Europeans. There are more slaves in Africa today than in 19. st. I'm educated enough to know that first legal slave owner in America was Anthony Johnson, a black person. White Americans died in Civil War for them to be free.

Before you even start, here is some background:

-my part of Europe was 400 years under slavery and occupation by Ottoman Empire where they raped our female family members on their wedding night, called "pravo bračne noći" while our male ancestors were forced to wait outside of the house or in some cases even forced to witness this horror with their own eyes
- most of my female ancestors were tattooed with crosses and Christian motives on their hands and face to avoid being raped because they were considered dirty that way
- few of my close family members were organizers of first Partisan guerrilla unit in whole Europe while Americans where putting Hitler on magazine covers

We don't play this bs racism/fascism liberal guilt game where I'm from.
 
tetoviranje-zena-u-bosni-1.jpg
Foo2rama
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Zapatta Zapatta
To be honest, that's bullshit! They were sold by their own people who fought tribal wars and sold them to Europeans.
Sadly I knew someone would make this comment. First, it was other tribes not their own people (think Vikings and Celts,) Africans did not transport them across the Atlantic, Africans did not get rich off of buying and selling in other countries, they did not put people to work in fields and breed them like cattle and get rich off of generations of enslavement. The Slave trade would have existed without some of the tribes being complicit, the market and the practice was clearly driven by Europeans.

Additionally, I do not think you know what fascism means, this is exactly the opposite of fascism, my family lost multiple members fighting fascism in Europe, they participated in D-Day as well as the Daylight bombing raids, so please do not disrespect the people who died while fighting fascism, nor the people who suffered the most from it. Perhaps you should take a deep breath and actually look up the definition of fascism instead of blindly repeating people pushing agendas.
 
Spruce
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STANDY STANDY
We just use our drivers license in Australia.
Just getting back on track with this, during our election, only about 60% of those eligible to vote, voted. I’d happily support the introduction in the UK of mandatory voting, like you have in Australia.
 
Zapatta
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Nowhere did I justify the Europeans and what they did to them, but I stated the fact that they were not kidnapped but sold.

I didn't disrespect Americans who fought in WW2, what I said is you can't play guilt game with me who's family members were slaves and anti-fasicst 15 years before WW2 while Hitler was in American magazines at that time. English is my 4th language but please don't twist my words.
 
TimeODanaos
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MRC MRC
In the UK we are currently having our first national election to require Photo ID for voting in person.

I had gone to the polling station with 4 passports, including my current 2016-issue, and planned to use the latest one if they were busy and run through them starting from 1964 if things were quiet. One of the normal officials is a friend from another role and it's a long day doing a boring job for them so I try to bring a bit of amusement if I can.
The development of this thread shows what a serious issue, with so many dark connotations, this subject can be. The truly astonishing thing to me was always how the British could until this year just stroll up, say hello, and vote. Then a couple of Tarquins did one internship too many in Washington DC, and suddenly electoral fraud became their latest toy. As we have seen, fear becomes a ratchet. If only they could instead have distilled, bottled, and exported whatever it was that had formerly made the British so relaxed about casting their ballots!
 
Peemacgee
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Whilst in no way diminishing the appalling effect on the peoples involved, we shouldn't conflate the tyranny of occupation, which had been enacted as the norm by the victorious for millennia, with the heinous, industrialised, mass-transportation of people to a third country for the sole benefit of the citizens of the nation-state perpetrators of the crime.

IIRC, although not exclusively guilty, it was Portugal and Britain who were the worst of the European countries responsible for the transportation of Africans to the 'New World', with many of the latter's 'great houses' being built on the proceeds of their interests in the Americas and Caribbean.

And before anybody suggests that the height of transportation was in the late 1700s and their decedents should surely have got over it by now - it was only in 1865 that slavery ended and even after that former slaves were treated as indentured workers for many years afterwards.

As @Zapatta 's post illustrate, the memories of wronged peoples are long - acts of oppression by the British going back to 1500s are still vividly remembered in Ireland, so we shouldn't easily dismiss the sensibilities of those African Americans who ancestors had their choice of self-determination stolen from them.
 
Peemacgee
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I rocked up to vote on Thursday with my driving licence - its a reasonably new renewal ( a few years old) but since lock-down I now sport (very) long hair and a goatee -so look absolutely nothing like my picture.
But because I live in a nice leafy suburb of my city and was a well dressed white middle-aged male, my licence received a perfunctory check and I was waved through.
I wonder how that interaction would have gone if I was a young black or Asian lad in an inner city area?

The British who are eligible to vote can elect to be on the electoral register, we don't need ID cards to vote - we simply don't have any major issues with voter fraud - and the ID-to-vote system was brought in as a specific political move to disenfranchise blocks of voters who were more likely to vote for parties other than the then ruling party. (little good that it did them last Thursday...)


As for ID cards generally - while they had existed since Napoleonic times in Europe, the only time the British were required to have an ID card was during WWII.
They were meant to be got rid of after the war ended but certain institutions found them useful and they were retained until 1952.

As early as 1947 Aneurin Bevin stated:
"I believe that the requirement of an internal passport is more objectionable than an external passport, and that citizens ought to be allowed to move about freely without running the risk of being accosted by a policeman or anyone else, and asked to produce proof of identity"

The requirement for ID cards was only allowed to lapse after an obscure motoring case because:
"The police, who had by now got used to the exhilarating new belief that they could get anyone's name and address for the asking, went on calling for their production with increasing frequency."
and
"Because the police have powers, it does not follow that they ought to exercise them on all occasions as a matter of routine. From what we have been told it is obvious that the police now, as a matter of routine, demand the production of a National Registration Card whenever they stop or interrogate a motorist for whatever cause ... This Act was passed for security purposes: it was never intended for the purposes for which it is now being used"

Self-identification of course is a necessity for accessing certain services or products but in a free society there should never (ever) be a legal requirement to carry an ID card simply to identify yourself - and with increasing technological advances in data storage mandatory ID cards have the potential for being the thin end of the wedge for Big Brother governments.
 
p4ul
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MRC MRC
In the UK we are currently having our first national election to require Photo ID for voting in person. I went to vote and my ID was checked and found OK. So was that a problem? Yes, it was issued in 1964 when I was 15 years old and lacked the white hair and beard I sport now, I cannot fit into the old BoyScout uniform either. The official did not look at the photo, just saw that the surname was the one I had given and handed it back. I was not even asked for first name(s). Want to cheat the photo ID requirement? Just steal someone's ID and remember the name, photo doesn't matter ::facepalm1::

I had gone to the polling station with 4 passports, including my current 2016-issue, and planned to use the latest one if they were busy and run through them starting from 1964 if things were quiet. One of the normal officials is a friend from another role and it's a long day doing a boring job for them so I try to bring a bit of amusement if I can.

But then we come to an actual problem, my address is missing from their list. I've come across this before, my house has a name [*] as well as a number. I don't use the name and it's only the local authority who do. The regular posties know this, and it applies to quite a few places on this street which was probably established over 2000 years ago, possibly 12000 😎 Problem is that the order in which addresses appear depends on the data source and then what sort algorithm is applied, some manage to get houses in numerical order despite their names, some push all the houses with names below the numbers, so I have to say "scroll to the bottom" to find it. Worked this time, so I do exist and I'm not just a figment of my imagination 😗

[*] Don't think it's a palace, the architectural description is "one storey with attics", or "two down two up".


LOL - I postal voted this time as I expected to be abroad, so missed out on taking the piss as you admirably demonstrate!

Another example of an ill thought through, knee jerk reaction, poorly written law instituted to solve a problem that does not exist by a shower of corrupt bastards.

And that is from one who has voted for them for his entire adult life up until this week.

Never say never, but the likelihood of me EVER voting for them again is vanishingly small.

As mentioned the 60% turn out is horrifying, the extremists on both sides will love it and push for proportional representation which could lead us into a world of pain, unintended consequences? 2 million voted for Farage ffs.
 
hen
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I think I had to bring my passport last time I voted, seems like drivers licenses are not valid any more.

As for voter turn up, if there were empty seats in the parliament proporsjonal to the low turn up, politicians might do something about this.
 
Gav1967
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hen hen
I think I had to bring my passport last time I voted, seems like drivers licenses are not valid any more.

As for voter turn up, if there were empty seats in the parliament proporsjonal to the low turn up, politicians might do something about this.
If you are referring to the uk then drivers licence is absolutely fine as proof of ID for voting as long as it is the "newer" plasticised photo type. Old paper ones are not valid
 
The Father
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Let me understand this, asking for a friend.

there are those that say voting should be made mandatory to battle low turn out and prevent “extremists” from assuming seats in government.

mmmm. Interesting mandatory voting. Mandatory voting, anything else to be mandatory along with voting?

I remember my first poly-sci class way back when. One clever student chimed in “if you don’t vote you should not have a say in government or social happenings”
The Poly-science Doctor chuckled “would not that make us all good little Nazis being required to vote in a free society”
I think that guy in North Korea gets 100% of the vote. Sounds good, let’s do it.

And no ID required dad gum it
 
p4ul
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The Father The Father
I think that guy in North Korea gets 100% of the vote.

He gets 100% but not of a vote.

If it’s 60% voting this time and falling then eventually it will be only me voting myself in to absolute power, bring on the day.

Not sure about mandatory voting, but political education in schools (no, not the Chinese/NKorean version of education) to explain and encourage involvement and what happens if you become disenfranchised might help.
 
JimInOz
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Photo ID for buying booze.
Photo ID for getting into a pub. etc etc.
Photo ID for all sorts of numpty crap.

Possible life threatening surgical procedure:

Surgeon: "What is your name?"
Me: "xxxxxxxxxxxx"
Surgeon: "What is your date of birth?"
Me: "xxx/xx/xxxx"
Surgeon: "OK, we're ready to go."

No photo ID required, and it all worked out OK.
 
blufinz52
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Meme-Dweller Meme-Dweller
Sounds good, as those cities have the most restrictive gun laws in the country but for some reason, as a result, the highest rate of gun crimes. Those Gun-Free Zone signs just aren't working! It's almost as if criminals, by nature, don't care about the law. So surely, giving people who follow the law more ability to defend themselves and their families is a good thing!

You do realize that the vast majority of guns confiscated in crimes in said 'highest rate of gun crimes', come from states with the weakest gun laws.
 
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