Well, I have finally got round to doing my write up about my NY trip and watch tourism experience. This has become a big post which I have divided into three Parts:

Part 1: Visting NY for some R & R with my wife

Part 2: 100 minutes speed watch tourism.

Part 3: My watch collection objectives before and post trip.

I would also like to thank upfront @Nobel Prize and @abrod520 for the generous offer of an informal GTG during my stay in NY, which unfortunately I was not able to fit in. This was a very busy "wife-pleasing trip" and it would have spectacularly backfired if I had said on given morning or afternoon…”see you love, I am off to meet up with some of my watch mates in NY”.

Part 1: Visting NY for some R & R with my wife

I would now suggest that you, the lovely forum reader, click on the Youtube link below and enjoy some background music as you read this post

There…that has hopefully set the mood…I know I could be accused of plagiarizing Woody Allen´s Manhattan here…a film I used to like, but which I now find a bit too “creepy” considering his family “affairs”…still, the opening is probably the best NY opening sequence in cinema history.

Well…back on topic. I was already in the US on business when I flew into NY late on the 17th March to meet up with my wife who was flying in from Rio on the 18th in the morning. Grandma and grandpa back home were pampering our children and we wanted to thoroughly enjoy our six day “kids-free” trip.

Last year our “kids free” trip had been a super seven-day Belmond adventure in Peru (Lima, Vale Sagrado, Machu Picchu and Cusco). The last time I had been in NY was many moons ago and I had made my wife sit through what I thought was a wonderful Bill Frisell set in Greenwich Village…so this time I wanted to do a NY 100% wife-pleasing trip

Visiting the States I often travel to Houston (business) and San Francisco (where my sister in law lives). Being a Londoner and bought up in W8 (Kelso Place) a few blocks away from to Hyde Park, I always thought that my Brazilian friends overrated NY. I would chuckle quietly inside when some Brazilian would brag about being the first to see a "new" Broadway musical such as “Les Miserables”, when I had actually been fortunate enough to see (as a wee young strapping lad) the original 1985 Trevor Nunn RSC production at the Barbican/London. I still think London has more to offer in terms of culture than NY, but NY does indeed have a vibe that makes it a unique and very much loved location in the world

To make sure I was being fair to the Big Apple, this time I decided to do a “Super NY” experience and I chose the wonderful Sherry Netherland Hotel (http://www.sherrynetherland.com/) on the corner of 5th Av and 59th…right next to the Apple Store and Plaza hotel. The Sherry is a lovely old NY style hotel and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants a cozy upmarket boutique hotel experience in NY. We had a gorgeous two room suite (room 2309) overlooking Central Park...not massive, but “perfect”.


The service was superb and friendly and the location fantastic. We would order in room breakfast from the Harry Cipriani and we enjoyed dinner there a few times as well (20% discount for hotel guests), where the “electric” Mariana would always make sure we got good service….and of course the Bellinis were true Bellinis.



We walked everywhere…around Central Park, to the MOMA, American Natural History Museum, Guggenheim, the Met & the brand new Met Breuer which had just opened and had a superb special exhibition exploring unfinished works from Classical to Contemporary art.


We saw the immaculate “American in Paris” musical and the moving “Curious incident of the Dog at Midnight” with a superb performance by the young Tyler Lea in the lead role.



We even managed to fit in a Helicopter tour from lower Manhattan


For the record, I had taken the following watches with me for the trip:

Speedy XI-45 on Ti bracelet for more casual clothes & brown shoe/belt combos.

Orbis Hour Vision for matching black shoe outfits

JLC Reverso Ultra Thin DuoFace for more formal dinner engagements.


We both kept shopping to a minimum, more focused on kids stuff (American Girl and Lego), as we had better things to do. So when my wife decided to buy some clothes at Bloomingdales on Lexington Av. (we had just had a surprisingly good lunch at the Train Bleu on the 6th floor), I realized that this would be my opportunity to do some speed watch tourism nearby on 5th and Madison.

Part 2, which will be my next post, will be a description of the boutique stores I visited (Seiko, Breitling, Rolex, Omega, IWC) and watches I tried on during 100 minutes…please rejoin after the break

 

Man, what a clock tease!

 

Part 2: 100 minutes speed watch tourism in NY

I stupidly did not take live pictures during the boutique visits…apologies, grovel, grovel, apologies.This was an improvised visit, I had forgotten to charge my mobile and I was concerned that my wife would not be able to call.

1. Seiko Boutique on Madison Av.

Well, this was my first hands-on experience with the Grand Seiko range. I thought the store staff were Ok, reasonably friendly, but nothing spectacular. I saw the Snowflake with the snowdrift dial but the watch that most impressed me was the Hi-beat GMT similar to the one that won the Petite Aiguille prize at the 2014 Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève. It is a very nice GMT watch and the finishing is indeed superb, but somehow none of the Grand Seiko watches overwhelmed me, I really I don´t know exactly why. I did find them rather tall/chunky which did not fit in with the all the polished surfaces leaning to a more dressy look.

2. Rolex on Madison Av.

Well I did not intend to buy anything, but I decided to try on the current Explorer 1 ref. 214270 as news of the new Basel 2016 version had just been announced. I also wanted to try on the Explorer immediately after trying a Grand Seiko to compare and contrast. The Explorer won me over (even with the short hands) as a balanced design (a nod to @Nobel Prize here on his superb critical Grand Seiko post). The heritage/ pedigree of the Explorer speaks volumes, it is a watch you can imagine being with you for the rest of your life. The sales person was an older lady with a strong New Jersey accent…seemed she had just walked out of a set of the Sopranos…when I commented about the new Explorer longer hands looking better without necessarily changing the white gold numerals…she sarcastically suggested…”yeah, u write to Rolex a letter about that.” LOL. She mentioned that the new Explorer would only be available later in the year, around Sept/October.

3. Breitling Madison Av.

Just a short visit just try on the 43mm 01 Navitimer (with the in-house B01 movement) and a special edition blue dial version. The educated sales chap loved my Reverso. The Navitimer 01 is a great watch on a leather strap and a watch that could be in my future collection as my official “aviation” watch. The dial option with baton indices makes the dial not look as busy as one would expect. The blue dial LTE was OK but nothing spectacular. I really think I would prefer to purchase the Navitimer with its original black and white panda dial.


4. Omega 5th Avenue

At the Omega Boutique a friendly but rather pushy Asian sales girl called “May” showed me a couple of watches + they served me coffee and sparkling water I finally saw a Globemaster white dial on a strap and I have to say it really looks boring / cold compared to the blue dial version on SS bracelet or strap. I also tried on the Speedy Moonphase Pro which was a big letdown “live” (looked much less sophisticated) although the Speedy Aventurine Moonphase I tried on was gorgeous, but I found it a bit too big for a more dressy watch. I tried on the DSOTM with the deployment strap and I have to say that it did spark some short-term passion and desire. The OB was quite full in comparison with the other boutiques I visited.


5th IWC on Madison Avenue

I had completely forgotten about IWC, but I recalled that I had not yet found the time to try on an Ingenieur 3239 in Rio as the AD is quite a long drive away. I loved the spectacular IWC boutique, with wonderful decor. My sales attendant was a chap called Mike who offered me coffee and water, very nice and relaxed (his wife works for Omega…I can imagine they have some fun discussions at night). He showed me all four Ingenieur 3239 references: the white dial, white dial with gold indices, black dial, blue dial special edition.

This was a “conversion” moment for me. The IWC 3239 Genta integrated bracelet design on the wrist is so, so, so incredibly cool, I just fell “head over heels” in love with this watch. The dial live is so much more interesting than the internet photos, the 3239 really is a perfect watch design..if anyone disagrees, fair enough, but have you actually tried it on the wrist?

I also know that inside you have a Sellita 2892-A2 ETA based movement, but from my experience with my Breitling COSC certified SOH…non in-house movements can be just as accurate as in-house…and as the IWC 3239 has the “traditional” anti-magnetic approach of using an iron cage (similar to the Milgauss), you will never see the movement. The watch is as thin as my Tresor at 10mm!

I thought I would prefer the white dial with gold indices variant but the white or black dial with normal indices are both so clean and perfect and both can be worn with anything from casual to business suits. The blue dial was OK, nothing spectacular and had the irritating white date contrast against the blue dial, which put me off. Pics below are not mine, courtesy a great review of the 3239 by Monochrome Watches.

 

I know...and I am sure I will not live up to expectations as there are no hands-on pics in Part 2...But I thought I would still write up my conclusions as they might be useful for someone else going through a watch selection process. Almost 02.00am in Rio right now, off to sleep...will post Part 3 tomorrow

 

Great synopsis so far! Looking forward to reading part three. Thanks for putting this all down for us to read and enjoy.

 

Wow! Great write up and pictures. Looking forward to pt 3 and finding out what you ended up buying

 

Nice write up so far! Can't wait for part 3. The helicopter ride looks awesome, and I enjoyed reading about all of your boutique experiences. I gotta try the Ingenieur at some point.

 

Looking forward to see if anything you saw on your trip is now in your future plans for aquisition.

 

Hi @Riviera Paradise

Oh Boy... What a Grand Entrance !
The House of Omega Erupts !
Encore ! Encore !


Ok. Let me try & understand a few issues here. Pretty absorbing stuff...

Rolex :
I tried on both the Old Explorer 1 & RE 2 Polar at my local RB few days ago. Pretty Freakin' Awesome right ?
Imagine the feeling when the new RE1 is on our wrists !
BB-8 matches the RE2 . So Cute !
Did the children manage to get their hands on any Star Wars memorabilia ?



GS :
After Nobel Prize passed judgement & gave his verdict i knew you 'd lost your case

IWC Ingenieur 3239 :
You love the Honest Functional Tool appeal & the Gerald Genta Sporty 70s design ( like the PP Nautilus )
But arent You a Purist ? Are You sure you're comfortable with the modified 2892 /Sellita SW 200 movements ? I guess the In- House movements would make the watch thicker & pricier huh...

Next time Riviera , bring along some National Geographic photographer when planning a Speed Watch Tourism thinghy...

Please send My Warmest Regards to Your Wife & Lovely Children. Is it too much to ask if i request a NY Family portrait since you didnt post any watch tourism pictures here...

 

Thanks Megan and all for the compliments on my post.

Yup...that Millennium Falcon has indeed flown back to Rio.

Actually, believe it or not I do not like the PP Nautilus at all, I find its squarer case and vertical lined dial really too frozen in the Abba 70s. In terms of Genta inspired designs I prefer the Royal Oak 15400ST and the IWC 3239 and I think they are both modern designs which do not look out of place in 2016. The IWC 3239 looks very fresh.

Now what would be more absurd (remembering that in Rio I do not have a reliable grey or pre-owned market):

1. Paying US$18K retail on an in-house AP 15400 Stainless Steel watch, with a lovely decorated movement, but which will have significant services costs during its lifecyle and that will be used effectively only as a "formal business watch" because it is not exactly a "daily beater" and will compete with my Reverso DuoFace and Tresor for that role.

2. Paying US$6.600 retail on an IWC 3239 which I actually prefer the design versus the AP (subjective this, but I find the IWC is more versatile and tool inspired while the AP is beautiful but a bit too fragile for me), flies under the radar and can be used taking kids to school, doing shopping etc. and has a reliable accurate movement that can be serviced by any watchmaker + the bonus of Ingenieur brand which ties nicely to my Engineering background.

There are many IWC designs that I like but I find many of their watches too big and their in-house movements have been often questioned in terms of precision and reliability. The IWC 3239 is unique in their range and the ETA/Sellita movement I see as a bonus for an IWC watch + ticks off all the boxes I need.

If there was any feeling on my part that I would be buying the 3239 as an intermediate stepping stone to the AP I would not purchase it, as living in Rio I do have a tough time flipping watches in a secure fashion. No, I want the 3239 because I think it is very cool and I really could not care less as to whether it will be admired by third-parties or considered a "poor man´s" Royal Oak Cheers.

PS.Part 3 is coming...too many "honey do" items today

 

Yup...that Millennium Falcon has indeed flown back to Rio.

Hi @Riviera Paradise
[emoji38] Your kids flew back to Rio at the Speed of Light hugging their Millenium Falcon Lego using my mode of transportation

[emoji12] That's My Selangor Pewter Thumbdrive

 

Wicked..I want!

 

As a native New Yawka, I think that sounds like a GREAT trip. The Sherry Netherland was the perfect traditional choice. When you have more time and no wife along, I highly recommend some of the grimy but characterful out of the way corners of the city. For example, a section of Canal Street in Chinatown has shops with endless replica watches. I once complained to a proprietor that "Rolex" was spelled wrong on one of his products, and he panicked and grabbed the watch to look. Also, the best Chinese restaurants in the US, with arcane specialties you won't find anywhere else in the country. The ethnic Chinese have spread to other parts of the region, but they still commute back to Chinatown to shop!

 

Great read!!

I agree with your views on the IWC. I don't mind at all that the movement is ETA. it is a good reliable movement no matter who makes it and it is well priced. If it was 12G then hell, ok. It's a watch I have always wanted (I'm a fan of Genta) but somehow I always end up getting districted by something shiny....I have a few IWC's and love them.

For more pics of New York got to Sergiomaclean.smugmug.com (shameless promotion of my hobby photo site )

Next time you're ion NY please let's get together. Wife and all (I'll bring mine) we don't have to monopolize the night conversation on watches.

Cheers.

S

 

first off - thx for the entertaining sunday read ...

Just like you I also see the RO/Nautilus/Ing. as the triumvirate ... and like the ING by far the best of the 3 (also, not as placeholder, but genuinely timeless) ...

UNLIKE you, however I cannot wrap my mind around the Sellita movement .... If I buy and pay for a ferrari, I want a ferrari engine, and not one of those great Toyota engines. Charge me for toyota and I buy it ... (also I have "slight" issues with the crownguard - but that might be managable). I cannot for the life accept that a $450,- Steinhart has the same or "better" movement (2892/93) as that IWC at $6.6k !!!!

(looking at you IWC)


I know I am not alone and even in german (normally rather IWC friendly fora) the ING is the running joke and has abysmal resale value ...

conclusio: buy them cheap in the 2nd hand market - most of them are in 90-95+% condition anyway ... I once missed out (by minutes) for a very nice one sub $2k !!!! ... but in that market $3k (thats what 45% of suggested retail) goes a loooooooong way

so you know what to do

 

@Nobel Prize / Sergio...I am in total jaw dropping awe of your photos. No shameless promotion at all, thank you for sharing your artistry...fascinating material: street scenes, portraits, and beautiful landscapes. Bravo, bravissimo Serigio!

Will certainly arrange for a GTG with our wives in NY next time in town, and please if you do ever take the opportunity to fly down to Rio, give me a shout....Brazil and Rio with the mixture of nature, multi-ethnic population and deep social contrasts will have you drooling for all the photo-ops you will want to take! Cheers

 

Thank you. And yes, If and when i get to Brazil the camera is coming with me.

 

Hey @al128 I just checked Jomashop and chrono24 and the 3239 IWCs are not selling more than 20% off right now. Cheapest around US$4500. So I don´t know if they are starting to stabilize on price?

http://search.jomashop.com/search#w=iwc 3239

I will have a tough time buying a 3239 pre-owned in Brazil and the amount of tax you pay importing anything to Brazil does not make an international grey market purchase viable

A few years back I would have completely agreed on your "ferrari vs toyota engine" metaphor for the in-house vs non in-house calibres, indeed, one of my motivations for being the first people to buy the AT 15000 Gauss in Rio was the whole co-axial anti-magnetic technology marketing pitch. But the simple fact is after purchasing several Breitling, Rolex, Omega and JLC watches I now believe that simple three hand + date complications with industrial finishing are pretty much the same: ETA, Rolex or Omega....so I don´t really think the Ferrari vs Toyota engine argument applies here.

I might some day pay premium on an in-house complication with significant hand finishing, based on the artistry involved. I also value a historically technically significant calibre (13zn, 321, El Primeiro etc.). Neither of these two arguments apply for the IWC 3239 Ingenieur or its direct "in-house competitors" such as the Omega AT or Explorer 1 (which I also intend to buy).

If you look at the 3239 case: the finishing with all the beveled edges and on the bracelet is superb and unique at the US$4-6K level and certainly not something Steinhart will be executing any time soon....that is where I perceive the real value of this watch to be. Cheers.

 

Part 3: My watch collection objectives before and post New York trip.

Well first if all a big thank you to everyone who liked Part 1 and Part 2

As I have stated before in other threads, ad nauseum (sorry folks), living in Rio I don´t have a reliable pre-owned or grey market to source from. This has driven me down the expensive road of retail purchases.

As I have never flipped a watch, I have always chosen with extreme care any new purchase as it will certainly have to be considered a keeper and fill a specific role in my rotation: I do not believe in having significant redundancy in my collection.


The state of play of the “collection” so far: 08 watches (01 Breitling, 01 Rolex, 01 JLC, 05 Omegas), detailed as follows:

May 2013: Breitling SuperOcean Heritage 42mm, SS Mesh Bracelet, now blue leather OEM, AD retail
Sep 2013: Omega AT 15000 Gauss, SS Bracelet now Barenia OEM with deployant, OB retail
Nov 2013: Omega Hour Vision Orbis, OB retail
Mar 2014: Rolex Explorer 2 Polar 216570, AD retail
Sep 2014: Omega Speedmaster XI-45 with Ti Bracelet, OB retail
Feb 2015: Omega Seamaster 300 MC SS Bracelet, now on OEM "Bond" Nato, OB retail
Mar 2015: JLC Ultrathin Reverso DuoFace, JLC boutique retail
Nov 2015: Omega Tresor YG, OB retail.


Before the trip to NY, my intended purchase short list for 2016 was the following and my intention would be to purchase at least two watches from this list:

1. Omega Globemaster Blue Dial with SS bracelet (still needed to evaluate the white dial GM with Grey/Black leather strap).

2. Omega Speedmaster Pro Moonphase on black leather.

3. Rolex 16710 GMT 2 Master Coke Bezel (after a possible trade on the Orbis Hour Vision).

4. Grand Seiko GMT.

5. Omega Speedy 57 9300 broad arrow on leather strap.


I had not been using the Orbis in Rio as part of my rotation, as with the constant sunny weather I had not been wearing business suits too often or black shoes of any nature. It therefore became a natural candidate for my first attempt at flipping a watch. I had intended to trade-in the Orbis for a Rolex GMT Master 2 16710 Coke bezel during my NY trip. So I took the Orbis with me to NY, box and papers, ready to sell.



The Orbis sale would be key to future adjustment and purchases in my collection, as it would open space for a possible purchase of a blue dial business watch (Globemaster) as well as the Speedy Pro Moonphase.

I would move from owning 1 Orbis to owning 1 Rolex GMT 2 16710, 1 Globemaster blue dial and 1 Speedy Pro Moonphase.

An initial “problem” arose with the above game plan: during its last supposed “farewell outing” I fell in love again with the Orbis, using it on numerous occasions during my US trip. This factor and also the Omega NY Boutique visit, where I was unimpressed by both the SpeedMaster Pro Moonphase and the Globemaster white dial on grey leather strap, all combined to initiate a review of where I was going with the collection.

An ex-deus machina event also happened during my stay in NY: the launch of the “corrected” Rolex Explorer 21470 at Basel 2016. This announcement combined with the lack of any interesting Basel Omega releases for me (ie no Railmaster), also provoked further reflection.


The Seiko boutique visit also did not spark a "Grand Seiko conversion" moment either, which could have been a “pivot to Asia” moment in my initial strategy. Putting on a Breitling Navitimer 01 after trying a DSOTM (beautiful agreed, but absurdly priced at retail US$12K) was another piece in the jigsaw puzzle.

The “coup de grace” for the original game plan was of course the IWC boutique visit and putting the IWC 3239 on my wrist. The IWC 3239, together with keeping Orbis killed off the gorgeous Blue Dial Globemaster from my shortlist and also provoked a personal reflection on in-house versus ETA/Sellita calibres (as discussed above in this thread).


So….after all this pondering and internet consulting….I have reached the conclusion that for 2016-2017 I only want to focus on classic, iconic designs. The 2016-2017 shortlist post NYC is now:

1. 2016 Tie = Rolex Explorer 1 Basel 2016 version & White dial IWC 3239 Ingenieur (intend to purchase both watches in 2016).

2. 2017 Tie = Breitling Navitimer 01 43mm & Rolex 16710 GMT 2 Master Coke Bezel

An unlikely Basel 2017 reissue Railmaster done right could jump to no. 2 ahead of the Navitimer and 16710 GMT Master 2 for 2017.

I might get into the vintage game around 2018, Hodinkee seem to be doing a good job with their new vintage site and this will give me more confidence before I enter that minefield


Conclusions / my personal take away:

1. If you are only weeks away from a Basel event…hold your horses before making any watch purchasing decisions!

2. Do wear a watch you want to flip several times before making a final commitment.

3. Always try ALL watches you are considering to purchase for a given slot in your collection, before making any final commitment. I knew this was true before, but the IWC 3239 hands-on test was critical for me, demonstrating as to how much this can be a true game changer.

Cheers!

 

Hi @Riviera Paradise

Like Totally Absolutely Agreed with the Conclusions of Part 3 !!
Is there a Prequel Triology or a post-Sequel Adventure?

Riviera. Your Coke Bezel RGMT M2 Ref number is 16710A not 16710 . The Bezel colour is more suggestive of the latest design of Diet Coke can actually !

I dont even want to know why you need 2 Rolex GMT watches in your collection !

One minute you're on CNN telling everybody the Beautiful Pure Honest Gerald Genta 70s designs... Then next minute you're live on MTV wearing a baseball cap backwards , an oversize gold chain around your neck & sporting a Coke or Pepsi Rolex that i see on the wrist of a lot of Hispanic & American African Rappers !

Why not a white or black Cerachrom New Daytona ?
Mr Engineer , isnt Aluminium bezel inserts old news now ?

Just a worthless 2 cents opinion from the youngest member in the House of Omega.....i think !

Love Your Thread Riviera !
Only 1 flaw ..Next time must hire a National Geographic Photographer !