Ownership of replaced parts after service—mine or watch brand?

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Hi folks—looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this situation:

Recently I had my watch of an unspecified Swiss independent brand serviced through a licensed watchmaker. There was a dent in the bezel, which I asked to be replaced as part of the service. I had to pay extra for the new bezel.

Upon receiving the watch back, the original bezel was not sent back to me. I inquired with the flagship store that sent my watch off, and was then referred to my country's sales representative. He told me that it was company policy not to return replaced parts, to prevent parallel trade. I told him, company policy notwithstanding, the replaced bezel was my property, and I wanted it back. He then told me my bezel most likely was already back in Switzerland, and pretty much wished me good luck getting it back, adding this was the first time a customer had ever approached him with a request like mine.

Now, as a lawyer I am baffled by this. The original bezel was part of the watch I purchased, therefore, it remains my property. Moreover, I haven't been offered or signed any terms and conditions upon offering the watch for repair stating otherwise.

Am I being anal now, or do I have a point? Have any of you been in similar situations—and have you managed to get back your replaced parts? Thanks for your advice!

Archer · Oct 5, 2019

Different brands have different policies. Omega returns replaced parts to the watch owner, but for example Rolex does not. All Rolex parts are sold on a exchange only basis, and I suspect that would be listed in the paperwork you are given before you agree to the service.

For myself as a watchmaker, I always return the old parts back to the watch owner, unless I am required to keep them and return them to the brand in question.

Cheers, Al

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Archer
Different brands have different policies. Omega returns replaced parts to the watch owner, but for example Rolex does not. All Rolex parts are sold on a exchange only basis, and I suspect that would be listed in the paperwork you are given before you agree to the service.

For myself as a watchmaker, I always return the old parts back to the watch owner, unless I am required to keep them and return them to the brand in question.

Cheers, Al

Thanks Al, very helpful. However, I wasn't offered any paperwork or T&C when handing the watch over at the flagship store. Had they informed me through the T&C or otherwise that I wouldn't get replaced parts back, at least I would have had the opportunity to consent. Legally, that's a no-no to me.

Archer · Oct 5, 2019

jaspers
Thanks Al, very helpful. However, I wasn't offered any paperwork or T&C when handing the watch over at the flagship store. Had they informed my through the T&C or otherwise that I wouldn't get replaced parts back, at least I would have had the opportunity to consent. Legally, that's a no-no to me.

So you handed a watch over and got no sort of evidence back from the store that you did so? That in itself would raise a red flag for me.

Does the brand web site have anything on this matter? I know you haven't stated the brand, not sure why, but knowing who you were dealing with might help.

For me personally, I can understand that some parts need to be sent back for exchange. For example Omega requires this for parts that have the serial number on them, because they don't want two parts with the same movement serial number on them floating around. In other cases, precious metal parts are sometimes sold on exchange (or outright - you are given the choice) in order to reduce the costs to you at service.

Examples like these I have no issue with, but not getting the parts back strictly as policy certainly rubs me the wrong way. If these brands wanted to charge extra for the replaced parts, to me that would make it more acceptable, but as I've often stated, Rolex steals your property when they service your watch.

I know many independent watchmakers have large stashes of parts that they have kept when they replaced someone's dial, hands, etc. Maybe there was a time when that was acceptable, but for me it's not. Returning the old parts just seems like the right thing to do - I've never questioned it really.

Cheers, Al

Darlinboy · Oct 5, 2019

One can never really “own” a Rolex, you only lease the parts until replacement is required. 😜

Dan S · Oct 5, 2019

These terms and conditions are often included when you approve the repair proposal. Did you ever do that? Or did you just turn over the watch and then received it back fully repaired with no intermediate communication?

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Archer
So you handed a watch over and got no sort of evidence back from the store that you did so? That in itself would raise a red flag for me.

Does the brand web site have anything on this matter? I know you haven't stated the brand, not sure why, but knowing who you were dealing with might help.

For me personally, I can understand that some parts need to be sent back for exchange. For example Omega requires this for parts that have the serial number on them, because they don't want two parts with the same movement serial number on them floating around. In other cases, precious metal parts are sometimes sold on exchange (or outright - you are given the choice) in order to reduce the costs to you at service.

Examples like these I have no issue with, but not getting the parts back strictly as policy certainly rubs me the wrong way. If these brands wanted to charge extra for the replaced parts, to me that would make it more acceptable, but as I've often stated, Rolex steals your property when they service your watch.

I know many independent watchmakers have large stashes of parts that they have kept when they replaced someone's dial, hands, etc. Maybe there was a time when that was acceptable, but for me it's not. Returning the old parts just seems like the right thing to do - I've never questioned it really.

Cheers, Al

All I got when handing it over was a return slip to claim ownership upon collecting the watch. Wasn't asked to sign anything. I totally understand why a watch brand wouldn't want to have serialed or other parts floating around—but at least inform me about this. Based on your responses, I now gather not giving back replaced parts is standard practice form some brands. To me, as a lawyer, doing this without prior consent or even tacit T&C agreement is unlawful, plain and simple. Now, the question is if I wish to go through the trouble of going after what's lawfully mine...😕

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Dan S
These terms and conditions are often included when you approve the repair proposal. Did you ever do that? Or did you just turn over the watch and then received it back fully repaired with no intermediate communication?

More or less the latter. I gave them my personal info, received a return slip, was called when they received the watch from the repair center and collected it with the return slip. Didn't sign a thing.

BlackTalon · Oct 5, 2019

You're a lawyer, so it won't cost you anything other than court costs.

Canuck · Oct 5, 2019

What measures will you take to attempt to retrieve your old parts?

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

BlackTalon
You're a lawyer, so it won't cost you anything other than court costs.

Well it'll cost me my time, which then I cannot spend on any other meaningful pursuit. In any legal proceeding, these opportunity costs far outweigh the actual costs. Knowing how these things tend to drag on beyond what any sane person would find proportionate, I'm on the fence still...

Dan S · Oct 5, 2019

jaspers
More or less the latter. I gave them my personal info, received a return slip, was called when they received the watch from the repair center and collected it with the return slip. Didn't sign a thing.

Interesting, I have always received a detailed repair proposal that I needed to approve before they started the work. As @Archer mentioned, different brands have different policies on this, and they are generally well-established and publicized. Still, they should have informed you.

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Canuck
What measures will you take to attempt to retrieve your old parts?

Well, I guess it starts with sending an email to headquarters. Usually it doesn't help getting all lawyerly right off the bat, so it'll prolly be a very polite and well intentioned email first before I employ any legalese in further communication...

Archer · Oct 5, 2019

jaspers
All I got when handing it over was a return slip to claim ownership upon collecting the watch. Wasn't asked to sign anything. I totally understand why a watch brand wouldn't want to have serialed or other parts floating around—but at least inform me about this. Based on your responses, I now gather not giving back replaced parts is standard practice form some brands. To me, as a lawyer, doing this without prior consent or even tacit T&C agreement is unlawful, plain and simple. Now, the question is if I wish to go through the trouble of going after what's lawfully mine...😕

I agree it's not right. I would love to see you fight this, and let us know how it turns out. My guess is that the brand will blame the dealer for not informing you...

Dan S
Interesting, I have always received a detailed repair proposal that I needed to approve before they started the work.

If you are sending a watch into a brand directly, yes you would typically get something like this. But when going through an AD, I've also been given nothing but a ticket to claim the watch back with. In fact years before I became a watchmaker and sent a Rolex I owned in for factory service, that's all I received.

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Dan S
Interesting, I have always received a detailed repair proposal that I needed to approve before they started the work. As @Archer mentioned, different brands have different policies on this, and they are generally well-established and publicized. Still, they should have informed you.

Now that you mention it: that happened over the phone. The flagship store called me after the service center had inspected the watch, and inquired if I was ok with the recommended servicing. I agreed, and that's all she wrote.

jaspers · Oct 5, 2019

Archer
I agree it's not right. I would love to see you fight this, and let us know how it turns out. My guess is that the brand will blame the dealer for not informing you...

If you are sending a watch into a brand directly, yes you would typically get something like this. But when going through an AD, I've also been given nothing but a ticket to claim the watch back with. In fact years before I became a watchmaker and sent a Rolex I owned in for factory service, that's all I received.

Yeah, it's probably the flagship store that's at fault here. And these are people I get along with well, and like on a personal level. This is why I've been hesitant disclosing what brand this is—to not throw these nice people under the bus. I'll definitely keep you posted!

Dan S · Oct 5, 2019

Not really relevant for the OP, I totally understand that the question is one of principle. But it would just be interesting to have more details about this. For example, what is the approximate market value of the dented bezel? And also, is it possible that the price charged for the new bezel took the trade value into account? This doesn't change the fact that they should have informed the OP, but in practical terms, it could affect whether it's worth going to the mat over this.

YY77 · Oct 5, 2019

AD gave me a return slip when I dropped off my TH Carrera Calibre 360, it was sent to Switzerland and I got a quote by mail for a complete service and changing all the hands which I agreed to. I asked if I could get the original hands back but they didn't want those parts possibly being used in anything else.

Archer · Oct 5, 2019

YY77
I asked if I could get the original hands back but they didn't want those parts possibly being used in anything else.

For me, this is a weak excuse to withhold my property...

YY77 · Oct 5, 2019

Archer
For me, this is a weak excuse to withhold my property...

I understand from their point of view they want to avoid Frankenstein watches but I would have liked to keep my property, the hassle of going to court whilst the new set costs €135 and is correct to the watch is not worth it.

Ownership of replaced parts after service—mine or watch brand?

jaspers

Archer

jaspers

Archer

Darlinboy

Dan S

jaspers

jaspers

BlackTalon

Canuck

jaspers

Dan S

jaspers

Archer

jaspers

jaspers

Dan S

YY77

Archer

YY77

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