Originally about tariffs and watches ... now just political rambling

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It's extremely complicated in the US, Al. Funding for schools comes mainly from state and local sources, with some federal funds.

The federal funds are mainly supporting special programs (e.g. for students with disabilities) and in the form of grants with specific objectives.

State funding is generally intended to be distributed equally, with some programs to mitigate inequality. But it's hard to generalize about 50 states that vary greatly.

Local funds are typically raised through property taxes, and can vary enormously. There is a strong feeling of local independence in the US, and if people vote for local tax levies to fund the school system, the state generally can't stop them from doing that. So if a particular district values education enough, they can tax themselves to spend more money on education. But the tax and bond measures have to pass with a majority vote, obviously.
Coincidentally, this popped up on one of my feeds recently. It shows almost zero correlation between how much a district spends and student performance. I'm certainly not versed in the US education system but this demonstrates that it's a complex issue.

 
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Coincidentally, this popped up on one of my feeds recently. It shows almost zero correlation between how much a district spends and student performance. I'm certainly not versed in the US education system but this demonstrates that it's a complex issue.

It's complex, but I think this data is somewhat important to the discussion:

 
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I suspect there is an underlying issue with school attendance. I definitely see it in the DC area.
 
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As we have chatted about, the biggest knife steel manufacturer just went bankrupt a few weeks ago .
So all the knives made by most USA 🇺🇸 companies like Benchmade and Spyderco will need steel from the French 🇫🇷 company that bought the recipes and trademarks of the once proudly 🇺🇸 made steel with a Tariff included.

Will they be moving the steel production to France?
 
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It's complex, but I think this data is somewhat important to the discussion:

I have read that there is a strong correlation (world-wide) between student test scores and the number of books in the family home.
 
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Perhaps you can help me understand the funding model better. My impression is that the wealth of the local school district residents has a direct impact on the funding available for the schools in that specific district. Is that correct? My impression is also that the districts are often quite small so limited to a city or even small town.

Here in Ontario it’s a bit complicated because we have 2 school boards. One public and one catholic…long story but this comes from the fact that we are a bilingual country and this is imbedded into our system, and the French are heavily catholic, or at least they were. Back in the day we would have to check a box on our income taxes to indicate if we were public or catholic supporters. But that went away and now the allocation done at the provincial level is done by anticipated enrolment levels in each school district. So the money is pooled to the province from the 16 million or so residents, and then distributed to the 72 school districts by the number of students. The district I’m in has a $1.2 billion budget for example for the public school board, for about 80,000 students.

As an aside, many governments have floated the idea of combining the school systems, because each has its own bureaucracy and there could be massive savings doing so. Some have also floated the idea of defunding the catholic school system because the government shouldn’t be paying for a specific religious education. That would be my preference, but it’s unlikely. One candidate for premier proposed extending funding to other religious schools, but he was handed his arse in the election….
Oh good gravy. For a full picture on the disparities in school funding you have to start at segregation in the US.

Laws across the US that dictated separate schools, hospitals etc by race. The Supreme Court ruled things could be separate as long as they were equal. The equal never happened. One example of this was Clarendon County South Carolina. There were over 30 school buses for the the white children in Clarendon. The Black children who were 3x in number had 1 bus. Their parents had polled money to buy that bus and when it broken down they asked the school district for a replacement. They were denied. The lawsuit that followed was part of overturning legal segregation in 1954. The same year Jackie Chan, Denzel Washington, and Jerry Seinfeld were born.

School integration or the fear of it because it's never truly happened in part lead to "white flight" to the suburbs. Leading to those smaller school districts with more funding as the value of suburban homes when up so did property taxes and with that school funding. On the flip side policies like redlining in Black neighborhoods has kept home values lower which leads to less school funding. These districts tend to be larger with homes of greater varying value. The larger district size also makes passing the local tax levies that Dan S mentions much more complicated as you're likely to have more people without kids, people on a fixed income, etc than you would in the smaller suburban districts.

School integration also lead to more private school openings. Many religious schools opened. It used to be that if you sent your child to a private school your tax dollars still went to the pot for public school. Just like people without children still pay into public education system. Now with school voucher programs money can be directed away from public to the private schools. Advocates say this opens the door for more children to have the opportunity to attend private schools. The data shows that them great majority of school voucher are used by families who already were sending their children to private schools.
Some states allow private school students to take part in sports and AP classes in the public school system that the private schools don't offer. Funded by the public school system.

Then you have charter schools. Government funded but operate independently like private schools. The quality of these schools varies greatly About 25% of them close within 5 years of opening. Some are just money making schemes. The school is set up as a non-profit they then hire themselves as a separate management company to run the school. Paying themselves to do so. They lure students (and funds) away from public schools with smaller class sizes, newer text books, etc.
Charter schools are supposed to be open to all students but with their autonomy they can influence who gets enrolled. They can for example chose not participate in school lunch subsidy program. They also expel children at higher rates than public schools.

There are programs that give the school funds directly to parents who home school. They hand them cash with little to no oversight on how it's spent.

Some places have laws tying school funding to test scores. Poor performing schools get funding cuts but there never seems to be a plan on how that's supposed to help them get the scores up.

At the higher education level there have been a several lawsuits about states of not providing the legally required funds to the HBCUs which were setup to keep students segregated. A recent analysis calculated an under funding of 13 billion dollars from 1987 to 2020.

That might be more than you were expecting for but that's as simple as I could think to make it. Each one of those points could be a essay if you got into the details.
Edited:
 
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I have been doing some reading, and apparently, there is already a huge (and growing) labor shortage in manufacturing/building in the US, which adds another dimension to this discussion. Both entry-level and skilled positions. If we already can't fill the manufacturing jobs that exist, how will we meet this goal of on-shoring manufacturing to even higher levels? Not with immigrants, obviously.

Elon's babies.


(Sorry, it was just hanging there...)
 
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I have read that there is a strong correlation (world-wide) between student test scores and the number of books in the family home.
Yes as the number of book is an indicator of social economic status. Parents with higher education levels are more to have money to spend on books and time to read them.
 
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That might be more than you were expecting for but that's as simple as I could think to make it. Each one of those points could be an essay if you got into the details.
Thanks. Good overview and matches the basic understanding I had.

There has been discussion of a voucher style system here, but it’s something I will fight as a citizen. Funding schools is for the greater good, and I say this as someone who has paid for them for decades but has no children…
 
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It's complex, but I think this data is somewhat important to the discussion:

It's not really that complex. I live in a place where some of the schools might as well be third world schools. It is largely a cultural issue. You can make it really complicated by going back into the history of schools, segregation, all the way back to slavery, and sure, those horrors do still have repercussions. But at its core, when a kid has a parent or parents who don't value education, and lives in a neighborhood where education is looked down upon, and goes to a school where everyone else is skipping class, that kid just doesn't have much of a chance. The saying "it takes a village" is certainly true, but a little more to the point, it doesn't just take any village. You can't take tax dollars from another village and pile them up in front of the village that doesn't value education, that doesn't just fix the issue. The village the kid grows up in needs to value education, and even the adults in the home.

We shy away from these cultural issues in the U.S. but that's the entire problem. Piddling about what schools get what money is just skirting the issue. It may make a difference here and there, but the reason the most expensive top schools tend to perform is not the money, but that the parents sending their kids there generally really care about the education.

The thing that's good about vouchers is that it allows for more choice, and sometimes the very best thing that could happen to a kid is going to another school with a culture of valuing education. Other kids who want to be there, that is just so important. I'm not sure vouchers will really do that for very many, but that's the major plus to the system. It's just another thing that's been politicized along tribal lines, but there is probably a very good way to do it.
 
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It's not really that complex... at its core, when a kid has a parent or parents who don't value education, and lives in a neighborhood where education is looked down upon, and goes to a school where everyone else is skipping class, that kid just doesn't have much of a chance.
But that is inherently complex. The culture you are describing of not valuing education transcends skin color and religion and place of birth... in so many cases the major connection is income.

It is so difficult to value or prioritize educating your children when you are working two jobs just to make ends meet. When you barely have time to cook. Time is one of the greatest premiums that the poorest of us have the least of. And it is a constant and inexorable system of feedback from one generation to the next.
 
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Thanks. Good overview and matches the basic understanding I had.

There has been discussion of a voucher style system here, but it’s something I will fight as a citizen. Funding schools is for the greater good, and I say this as someone who has paid for them for decades but has no children…
The voucher programs started out with restrictions limiting them families under a certain income level or for kids with special needs. This is still the case in some places but in a lot of others they became open to everybody. You end up with expanded programs and vouchers may cover something like 75%-80% of private school tuition. Families living paycheck to paycheck can't pay the difference and can't use the voucher program even if they wanted to. That's where you end up with 80% of the voucher users being children who were already in private school before the voucher program existed. It becomes a welfare program for the well off.
 
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Will they be moving the steel production to France?
Yes
French company bought the recipes for the steels and the trademarks
for $18m and will make the steel in France. And another entity bought the land and buildings for $2m
May be a chance to use the foundry, but looked like the land was bought by a law/land development type entity.

Older info but paints the picture
https://www.knifemagazine.com/second-bidder-complicates-crucible-industries-bankruptcy-sale/
 
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Yes
French company bought the recipes for the steels and the trademarks
for $18m and will make the steel in France. And another entity bought the land and buildings for $2m
May be a chance to use the foundry, but looked like the land was bought by a law/land development type entity.

Older info but paints the picture
https://www.knifemagazine.com/second-bidder-complicates-crucible-industries-bankruptcy-sale/
It looks like Niagara Specialty Metals will still be able to provide many of the steels Crucible provided.

https://nsm-ny.com/metals-by-industry/#cutlery
 
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I’ve been working my a$$ off doing three jobs…academia, law enforcement, and remodeling a house to flip (not to mention, working my honey bees and other farm critters). I haven’t been around here nearly as much as in the past.

I decided to read through this lengthy discussion over coffee this morning. Eye opening…beginning with the potentially offensive term ‘Muricans. While I understand the tariff issue compounds our collective watch obsession, this discussion went a thousand different political ways…even with members deciding on principle (a trait I admire) to refuse service to us ‘Muricans despite being friends and customers. Sad that the world has devolved into such a state that it has seeped into here.

I treat every human with the same courtesy and respect that I expect. I have friends all over the world. I’ve done business with OF members in Canada, Europe, and the U.S. If I can be of service to help anyone, particularly those I have developed a relationship with on OF, all they have to do is ask, politics and geographical boundaries be damned.

Regardless of your particular stance on any of this, realize that others may see it differently. Please don’t burn bridges over a subject that none of us can control. For the love of all things watches, peace.
 
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Sad that the world has devolved into such a state that it has seeped into here.
Indeed it is sad. No one on my side of the border asked for or wanted this, by the way...

As I've said several times, I don't think the average American truly understands how much damage has been done. A poll released on Friday asked people if Canada had a good relationship with various other countries. The results should give you (hopefully) some idea of how we feel right now...



The US falls below China by quite a bit, but the good news is you are still ahead of Russia...barely...
 
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I don't think the average American truly understands how much damage has been done.
No offense, but average American doesn’t care. We are way too busy trying to earn a living, figuring out how to pay bills, insurance, food, gas, taxes etc…keeping a car running, shuttling kids to and from practice, recitals, doctors appointments, all the while taking care of elderly parents…Probably no different from many elsewhere in the world. As long as the government man isn’t banging on our doors, we have way too much on our plate to worry about what Washington is doing.
 
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I think it's kind of interesting that Archer's response keeps coming back up. It seems like such a minor part of this large situation.
 
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Yes as the number of book is an indicator of social economic status. Parents with higher education levels are more to have money to spend on books and time to read them.
There are those things called libraries. Last time I checked you can look at books for free.

Unfortunately, parents and kids have their noses pointed at a cell phone 24/7.
 
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No offense, but average American doesn’t care. We are way too busy trying to earn a living, figuring out how to pay bills, insurance, food, gas, taxes etc…keeping a car running, shuttling kids to and from practice, recitals, doctors appointments, all the while taking care of elderly parents…Probably no different from many elsewhere in the world. As long as the government man isn’t banging on our doors, we have way too much on our plate to worry about what Washington is doing.
You ignore it at your own peril...the fact that most people ignore these things until it affects the directly, is the reason these problems exit...